When is enough "enough"?

[Linkachu]

I'll admit right off, this is inspired by the current situation at Pokeschool. It goes for anything in life, though.

How do you know when it's finally time to turn away/step down/let go of something? When does hanging on become a waste of time, and/or when must you admit defeat and realize that you can't change the situation? May it a friendship/relationship, an old hobby, a website/internet forum... When's enough "enough"?


Speaking from experience, I've found that sometimes there is a point when you just have to step back and really look at a situation. Sayings things like "Never give up; never surrender" sounds nice, but sometimes it just isn't realistic. You have to pick your battles, and not all battles can be won.
For me it's that moment of clarity when you realize "this just isn't working anymore". It's hard to admit it to yourself and others because you feel like you're weak for giving up, but in the end it's the right thing to do. It might not be the "ideal" - and it can hurt like a bitch (emotionally and/or physically ^^) - but it's the only way for things to get better.

I might add more to this later, but what are your guys' thoughts?

 

[praetoritevong]

Speaking from experience, I've found that sometimes there is a point when you just have to step back and really look at a situation. Sayings things like "Never give up; never surrender" sounds nice, but sometimes it just isn't realistic. You have to pick your battles, and not all battles can be won.
For me it's that moment of clarity when you realize "this just isn't working anymore". It's hard to admit it to yourself and others because you feel like you're weak for giving up, but in the end it's the right thing to do. It might not be the "ideal" - and it can hurt like a bitch (emotionally and/or physically ^^) - but it's the only way for things to get better.

I have to disagree to an extent there. Not all battles can be won, I agree with that. And somethings aren't realistic, that too I agree with. But IMO just because something isn't working anymore doesn't mean it's the time to cut your losses and go.

Many individual achievements come from people looking, realising things aren't working, and then doing it harder and better so that it does work. The thought that this is working anymore, so that's enough, is an attitude I think will rarely get a person anywhere.

It's the "how can we get it to work" that really makes things better. Cutting your losses, that may make it better. But who does that actually make it better for? It doesn't make it better for the people who support you. It doesn't make it better for the people who don't want to give up. It doesn't make things better for people who have given up. It doesn't make things better for the situation. It doesn't make things better for those who are trying to help. It doesn't make it better for the people in charge of the situation.

So who does it make it better for? YOU. (A generalisation, not anyone specifically) It makes things better for little old you, by trying to forget and not caring that you're dumping it on someone else. And you know? As much as people might like to say otherwise, it's intentional. You might not have caused the situation before, but you're the cause now, see? It makes things better for only one person, the one person who has decided that it's too tough for them but not others; and so it's all ok to leave it to them.

IMO it shows lack of commitment. When I see that in a person, I think why the heck did they bother trying to help anyway? Obviously they don't care enough about the situation, only about themselves and their well-being. They want to make it better for themselves, and bugger everyone else.

But that attitude is different from, "nothing we're doing is working and we have no chance of getting it back together." The former implies giving up at the first major hurdle. One thing isn't working. Your smooth sailing is getting torn to pieces. So why don't we quit? The latter however contains the element of realism - that hey, we tried everything we could think of, it's just no use, people won't listen or whatever.

It can often be a fine line between the two. But somewhere, sometime, you can try and pick all the battles you want. Pick the ones you can win, by all means. But sometimes you have to fight the ones you don't think you can, either, or you'll find it mighty hard win. The true winners, even throughout history, are those who knew they were licked before they began, but they began it anyway. And, they won. Because it doesn't mean you can't win. You just have to find it in you to do whatever it is harder. If you don't even attempt some of these battles, you'll gain your small victories, yes...

But you will lose. And lose. And lose... Until you wake up. And someday you will wake up, and find... noone. And nothing.

 

[Linkachu]

Keep one thing in mind, Prae. When I wrote about that "moment of clarifty" it's after every possible angle you can see HAS already been tried. THAT'S when you realize this just isn't working anymore, and it's not going to work. You're just holding on to a hope that doesn't exist, or at least under the circumstances never will.
I'm sorry my wording threw you off but as I said, that was from my experience, and you didn't interpet it the way I meant it. If I just "gave up" on things the way you made it out to sound I wouldn't be able to type this today. No... It's much deeper than that, as everything is. (Yes, I realize you said it was all generalized, but what you wrote still sprang off my text. That says something)

I can tell that you hold the "never give up, never surrender" mentality, which isn't necessarily a bad thing... But sometimes having the strength to step down is the hardest thing a person can do.
This sounds wrong right off, but think about it. It's not as cut as dry as you made it out to be, it depends on the situation. For one thing, not every conflict directly involves anyone else but yourself. But many do, eh?

Picture this: an abusive boyfriend. The girlfriend has been with him for three years, has tried to talk to him, tried to explain her feelings, and every so often things get better... Then they get worse. Worse and worse every time. Nothing she can do is working, and if things continue on it could almost cost her her own life.

So she finally ends it. She finds to courage to tell the man she loves - yes, the man she loves who abuses her (it is a reality, don't deny it) - that it's over. It tears her up inside; it tears him up inside, but it also opens doors to her she never thought possible. It gives her her life back.

Now, I wasn't through this particular scenario myself, but I was in a relationship of a similar nature. You can't always make things ideal. In any change one thing has to give for another to be born - it's the law of the world. You're never going to satisfy everyone. No, you don't abandon a suicidal friend in need because nothing else is working. You abandon the idea that you alone can save their life and get the help they really need, even if it means betraying the trust of that person forever.

You speak about all the great successes in history... It's true, those people saw a way to change things and went with it, ultimately making all the difference. But have their not also been cases of someone realizing they truly aren't suited for a position and stepping down to allow someone else to take a chance, a chance that also made all the difference? I'm not saying you look at a situation and take the easy road out. That's never the answer, nor is that the "clarity" I was speaking about (you can't have clarity without seeing all sides, and you can't see all sides without experience). But as I said before, sometimes it's easier to blindly continue fighting because you'll make everyone else happy instead of doing what you know in your heart is right. It's comforting to go with the flow; it's much harder to stand on your own.

If you have too much pride or naivity to finally admit something has to give, you'll lose just as many battles as you would if you fought them all. Maybe more. Instead of spending your efforts where they could be best utilized you'd be putting all of your time and energy into something that's not going to get better. "You're beating on a dead horse" and missing, or ignoring, the bigger picture because of it.

And here's a thought to leave you with... If you set something free and it comes back to you, it was truly meant to be. If you keep it in a cage its entire life you'll never know.

There's never a perfect solution in life. There's not an ultimate answer or guide to follow... Everything is gray.

 

[Doctor Oak]

Well, I'll use the old battered horse of Nintendo Gamer as an example of my experience.

As most of you ought to know, Nintendo Gamer started off life at the start of 2003 - on Netfirms. That was the first mistake.

Now, of course, it was EXTREMELY amatuer and served as nothing more than a small base of myself and Nem to get some experience on the subject really. Afterall we had no press stuff, no contacts and no review or preview code.

If we were to do it now, we'd certainly have all that and it'd be awesome. Well, that is if it wasn't FECKING CURSED.

Considering that on the very first day of it's launch, Netfirms wouldn't let me actually farking upload the site, I really should have realised the bitch was cursed - but I did keep on flogging through.

I switched around the subdomain names to try and get around the problems and wound up with about 5 variations of Nintendo Gamer (Try and find 'em all kiddies!) and also had problems with 'going over SSI limits'...

Netfirms did everything it could to kill Nintendo Gamer, so I tried to move it to a better host. A host that offered all the stuff you'd expect to pay for but for free!

Then their servers got carted off and Nintendo Gamer was dead again before it even got relaunched.

That was the end of it. There have been other attempts to bring it back, initially as a way to get Nem back on side after not being part of the 'Charms relaunch. All died a death.

I've decided that Nintendo Gamer is best left dead now. But a part of me is sad that I never really got to expand it fully.

Then again, if I had kept on flogging on with Nintendo Gamer, I never would have brought back Pokecharms - so I guess fate stepped in in 2003 to bring this place back into existence. Something I'm much, much happier and extremely proud of.

(Tried to post this a few days ago but my net died)