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DPPt/HGSS Overgrown team

Discussion in 'The Doctor's Clinic' started by Ruko, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. Ruko

    Ruko Bearded Trout Warrior

    Friend Code:
    Mono-Grass team up for ratings :D

    Shaymin [Land Form] @ Choice Scarf
    Modest Nature
    Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Sp. Attack, 172 Speed, 80 HP
    - Seed Flare
    - Air Slash
    - Earth Power
    - HP Fire

    Shaymin and Breloom were the only two grass types I could make an anti-lead out of... I didn't want to use Shaymin so I could more feasibly make this team in-game, but I'm too determined not to let Breloom fall as my lead.
    Seed Flare - The primary attack here... slightly inaccurate, but massive power and amazing effect outweigh that.
    Air Slash - Provides grass and bug coverage, even though those aren't common leads. The flinch chance goes well with scarf as well.
    Last attacks - Purely for coverage, as well as the fact the only other feasible attack for a choice scarf is Psychic.

    Tangrowth @ Leftovers
    Impish nature
    Leaf Guard
    EVs: 252 Defense, 252 Sp. defense
    EVs: 128 HP, 252 Defense, 128 Sp. Defense
    - Leech Seed
    - Stun Spore
    - Endeavor [Amnesia]
    - Knock Off

    Meant to wreak havoc on my opponent's team.. Paralyzing and knocking items from as many off them as I can. If they stop switching and try to out-stall me, I can [hopefully one lived] switch to Shaymin or Roserade to absorb status and counterattack. Even a switch-in won't like Seed Flare very much.
    Leech Seed - Makes people want to switch and helps heal Tangrowth's amazing bulk.
    Stun Spore - to be used on the turn after Leech Seed so I can either catch a switch or just help my current opponent along with their slow death.
    Amnesia - Will boost Tangrowth's meager special defense to a respectable level, pretty well rounding it off as unbeatable except by Toxic and PHazing.
    Knock off - Will put a stop to any held items as well as giving me some idea of what I might be up against on a switch.

    Breloom @ Toxic Orb
    Adamant Nature
    Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Attack, 4 Speed
    - Focus Punch
    - Stone Edge
    - Substitute
    - Spore

    Offset of the standard: Has full HP EVs instead of investing in speed. Go ahead and sue me for a Focus Punch set :p
    I don't really feel a need to explain each move, so I'll just describe the general strategy... I come out on something physical or walling and spore it after probably taking a hit, then Subs whether they switch or not.. and Stone Edge any Fliers/Ghosts while Focus Punching almost anything else. Cripple one temporarily, KO or at least heavily damage another at the least. Simple, but effective and very old >>

    Ludicolo @ Damp Rock
    Modest Nature
    Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Sp. Attack, Enough speed for 209, Rest in HP
    - Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Energy Ball

    Basic special sweeper.. Should have the defenses to take a hit on setup, and then it'll be faster than just about anything that doesn't have a Focus Sash on it.
    Again, not much explaining to do for the set. Speed setup/Water power-up [Hydro Pump will boost to an amazing 270 power after STAB and Rain]. Two STABs and a coverage attack.

    Abomasnow @ Life Orb
    Brave Nature
    Snow Warning
    EVs: A mix of everything but speed
    - Blizzard
    - Ice Shard
    - Wood Hammer
    - Earthquake

    Probably the sketchiest member of this team... but it puts Shedinja's reign to a halt. I'll have to watch out for my own hail, but I think that Abomasnow will be more beneficial than harmful. I'll have to play around with EVs to find what I like for this one.
    Blizzard - STAB'd power of 180 and nevermiss in the hail. Also gives me a special attack to make use of in case I come across a wall.
    Ice Shard - Priority to overcome slow speed and my nature of choice. Also gets STAB for a decent power boost.
    Wood Hammer - Could easily be replaced with Seed Bomb, and possibly will be depending on how suicidal I find this attack to be [considering life orb as well]. Much like Blizzard, has a power of 180 after STAB.
    Earthquake - Coverage of Fire and Steel types.. Skarmory is hit neutral by Blizzard and won't like them given its special defense stat, while Bronzong may be a problem here. Blizzard and Wood Hammer both hit for 90-base still and will take their toll with time... but the same is true for me because of the Life Orb.

    Roserade @ Black Sludge
    Timid Nature
    Natural Cure ability
    EVs: 252 Sp. Attack, 252 Speed
    - Sunny Day
    - Weather Ball
    - Energy Ball
    - Hidden Power Ground

    Quite a wild card given Abomasnow and Ludicolo. Black Sludge is just to cancel out the damage from Hail and potentially sandstorm.
    Sunny Day - Will give me reign of 3 out of the 4 weather conditions for this team, and can also be used to support Tangrowth.. though I probably won't be using it for that purpose without a Heat Rock.
    Weather Ball - Weather Ball boosts itself to 100 power when any weather condition is in place. This gives me base-100 Rock and Ice in Sandstorm and Hail respectively, While I get 150 Fire and Water in Sun and Rain [since both of these also boost their respective types]. Sandstorm and Hail's damaging effects will be canceled by Black Sludge, while giving me an anti-flying attack.. Rain and Sun, though temporary, will give me more powerful attacks without flying coverage.
    Energy Ball - STAB and basic coverage no matter what weather is up. If I went with Solarbeam, I'd lose the versatility of coming in on other weathers with decent coverage.
    HP Ground - Was decided to be the best choice since I could only guarantee Roserade access to the sun. HP Ground will hit pesky fire types if I'm lucky [since most will be faster than me]

    Cradily Defense System @ Chople Berry / Leftovers / Expert Belt
    Careful Nature
    Suction Cups
    EVs: 252 HP, 4 Attack, 252 Sp. Defense
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge [Rock Slide as an accurate option]
    - Seed Bomb / Energy Ball / Sludge Bomb
    - Mirror Coat / Protect / Sludge Bomb

    Explaination below [ctrl + F for "CDS" if you can't find it]

    I'd normally try to summarize my team here, but I don't know how to do so... it's an odd combination that may not ever work, but could also catch a few people off-guard.
    Shaymin gives a combination of Defense and Offense, with a surprising speed stat.
    Tangrowth gives me a wall that doesn't really do a whole lot by itself... but I think it'll be an excellent team play as long as it isn't Taunted
    Breloom, Ludicolo and Abomasnow all provide the main offense of this team, while still being strategic within themselves
    Roserade is, as I said, a wild card.

    Breloom and Tangrowth are the only pokemon I can see interfering with each other at all... Abomasnow's residual damage will hit myself as well as my opponent most likely.

    Even if you don't really have ratings, ask questions so I can try to answer them.. I don't like to leave people in the dark when they don't understand something about my pokemon.
  2. Although, I cannot exactly rate this well, since you are, like, Ruko, after all, I do have a few questions.

    Since I must, I must comment on the Tangrowth. I realize it is to stall and such, but without something like a recovery move or some attacking move, I can't help but seeing it getting stopped short by something like Weavile or another Grass, like an opponent's Ludi. Amnesia also perplexes me, since it could screw you up if you get stuck with a special sweeper in general, of course Heatran or something would kill this team anyway.

    Er, other than that, that's all I have to say. I can't really say much about your sets since they're really nice, Ruko XD
  3. Ruko

    Ruko Bearded Trout Warrior

    Friend Code:
    I'd only be sending Tangrowth out on something Physical, and Impish Nature + 125 defense with full training should take even a surprise Super-effective move. I'd amnesia or stun spore on that turn, in case a switch does occur.

    Also, as for lacking an attack move, I was going to put power whip on in place of Knock Off, but went ahead and decided to use Tangrowth as full support. It doesn't do literal HP damage to opponents, but paralyzing half of the team seems like a lot of damage to me, especially if I rob them of their items while I'm at it.
    In your exact example, Even a weavile's Ice Punch shouldn't kill me, and I'd be able to [most likely] Paralyze said weavile... what good is a paralyzed Weavile?

    I hope I've answered you well enough XD
    If knock off turns out to be more useless than I thought, I'll probably revert to Power Whip or maybe Rock Slide to combo with paralysis.

    Played 10 test Matches on shoddy to try out the team. The matches were standard OU with Sleep Clause in effect.
    6 battles were won
    3 battles were lost
    1 battle I didn't count because the person fled as soon as I OHKO'd their lead Tyranitar with Seed Flare.

    Two of the lost battles were due to an infernape with Overheat, which I really have little defense against. Ludicolo came out and got U-turned in both instances, and even the second overheat can kill most of the team in one hit.

    Shaymin has been amazing as a lead, for the same reason my Choice Banded Ninjask was... everything taunts it XD
    Everything I faced was switched out or destroyed before getting the chance to lay Stealth Rock. Even when resisted by Metagross and Skarmory, Shaymin won out with Seed Flare in the end because of their low special defenses.
    Tangrowth has been an absolutely excellent set-up for Breloom... but has done little more than either that or paralyzing one pokemon on my opponent's team. Even paralyzing only one, it's usually the one that would do the most damage to my team, since other things just don't have what it takes to hurt Tangrowth through leftovers, paralysis and Leech Seed.
    Breloom coming in mid-game on a paralyzed and seeded pokemon can usually use substitute with little cost.. on some pokemon, it even gains ground, and so can stall until the opponent is fully paralyzed for a turn or switches. Stone Edge has run out three times out of the ten battles, twice due to Zapdos and once due to Dusknoir who both carry pressure. Breloom has probably come out on top for the most KOs.
    Abomasnow seems to live for two turns and then die. Has always ended up severely damaging or KOing something in the time it's out, particularly dragons or switchins that get stunned by the sheer force of Blizzard or Wood hammer. Only two of my pokemon actually take damage from hail in the long run - Shaymin and Ludicolo, one of which Rain Dances first thing. So the Hail hasn't been an issue for me in the least. Even though it doesn't live long, it gets a purpose in before dying.
    Ludicolo is close in second to Breloom for the most KOs. The speed brought about by Rain Dance paired with HP training and amazing power of Hydro Pump [135 power even if resisted]. Ice beam only sees use for Dragons, and Energy Ball was only used once - when I wanted a more accurate attack for Tyranitar.
    Roserade has been the wild card I thought it'd be... hasn't really done much of anything notable. It's outshined by Ludicolo entirely, but Ice and Water type Weather Balls have been useful a couple of times. Sunny day never saw use becuase of paranoia about Roserade's lacking defenses and boosting fire-type power. Will probably try to replace Roserade and see how the team does.

    I'm quite proud of how well this team has done in the test battles if I didn't show that above.. Will consider Shaymin for a generic lead pokemon on other teams, and Tangrowth has proven worth as a great physical wall [even if it hasn't done much here with its set]

    [EDIT 2]

    Some talk with KoL and a venusaur later, we came up with a very nice CDS. This will be taking Roserade's place on my party :)

    Cradily Defense System @ Chople Berry / Leftovers / Expert Belt
    Careful Nature
    Suction Cups
    EVs: 252 HP, 4 Attack, 252 Sp. Defense
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge [Rock Slide as an accurate option]
    - Seed Bomb / Energy Ball / Sludge Bomb
    - Mirror Coat / Protect / Sludge Bomb

    Cannot be 2HKO'd by any Heatran unless it's holding Choice Specs... and can 2HKO any Heatran not holding a shuca berry with heavy investment in defense EVs.
    Expert Belt will give me a 16-18% chance of a OHKO on non-shuca Heatran, and guarantee 2HKO on shuca heatran.
    Leftovers prevents me from even being 3HKO'd by standard Timid + Choice Scarf Heatran as well as giving me the oppurtunity to cancel out possible hail [2HKO on Cradily is still impossible in hail even without leftovers]
    But the item that shines the most is a Chople Berry, granting me protection from both Infernape and Lucario. Worst case scenario being Adamant, Choice Band, Close Combat from Lucario [252 Attack EVs].. will do 87.5% damage max through chople berry.. a very slim chance of OHKO if Stealth Rock is in play[Stealth Rock + Hail = about 50% chance of KOing me, but not until after I've attacked when hail hits]. Choice Specs Aura Sphere does even less because of my training.
    As an added bonus in both Close Combat situations, I get a 1/3 and 2/3 chance of OHKOing with EQ because of the lowered defenses [Infernape and Lucario respectively]

    For a few more numbers... an alternate EV spread I did calculations on:
    252 HP, 80 Attack, 176 Sp. Defense.

    So long as hail isn't in play, I still can't be 2HKO'd by any heatran not wielding choice specs and will 2HKO [small chance at OHKO] any heatran, even with Shuca and full defense training.
    Expert Belt would give me a 2/3 chance of OHKOing Heatran without Shuca, and I've also got a 60% chance at OHKO with mirror coat now... but I'd go for EQ.
    Again though, the Chople Berry is the shine of this combo. since neither my defense or HP has changed, the above damage calculations still hold true against me, but I can now OHKO Lucario 100% of the time and OHKO Infernape 96% of the time after they've used Close Combat.

    As a random added note - Cradily does a good job of taking Roserade's place: It uses sandstorm against my foe even better XD
  4. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    In this team, I'd be more worried about Infernape vs Cradily than Lucario vs Cradily, simply because Lucario won't start spamming STAB Overheat or Fire Blast if Cradily gets KO'd. Either way, 96% chance of OHKOing Infernape after Close Combat is a very, very good number, and 100% on Lucario is still a bonus since a Close Combat from Lucario is very, very nasty even if neutral, and ExtremeSpeed (which is very common) is horrid to deal with on top of that as well (Sash'd Lucario with Close Combat and ExtremeSpeed almost always beats Garchomp 1 vs 1 without Substitutes.) I'd say Cradily would be a very welcome addition to the team for his ability to tie up a few loose ends.
  5. Ruko

    Ruko Bearded Trout Warrior

    Friend Code:
    My new problems for the team come in the form of CB + U-turn Scizor, and pretty much all variety of Latias XD

    I didn't face either before when I was testing, but Scizor can OHKO nearly any member of my team with what I stated above... Latias just kinda walls everything but Abomasnow, and with the combination of Latias' base stats and the fact most carry Calm mind... Blizzard doesn't do much more damage than Ice Shard.

    Abomasnow has made me want to make a hail team though - not mono-ice, just hail oriented.

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