Ok, I have been thinking about a team... and can't come up with anything. So, I'm turning to 'Charms for help. I have Pokemon Pearl and Fire Red at my disposile. I would have Emerald, but it's with my friend, who lives ages away from me. I also may have an action repay... but it depends if Tj can be bothered letting me use it or not... so don't count on it. I just want some help for a 'after Elite Four' Team, for the Battle Tower, and my friends. Open to any sugestions. ANY AT ALL! Just, try not to use Bug or Grass Pokemon...
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DPPt/HGSS After Elite Four Team required!
- Thread starter Aura
- Start date
Ruko
Bearded Trout Warrior
Why no bug or grass types? D:
Well.. since you say no grass types, might I suggest a Rain Dance compatible team with no fire type? Weather support will help you against anything like Tyranitar, Hippowdon and Abomasnow [not at all sure how common any of those are in the tower]
Lopunny@Damp Rock
Timid/Jolly Nature
Cute Charm ability
-Substitute
-Rain Dance
-Thunder wave / Thunder
-Baton Pass
Substitute Will block incoming status attacks and could give you a free turn after using it.
Rain Dance is part of the support that this team will be able to use, but not rely on vitally
Thunder Wave Could chance at stunning the opponent for a turn, giving you a free substitute to set up.
Thunder won't be doing immense damage given Lopunny's special attack, but it won't miss in the rain and has a 30% paralysis chance.
Baton Pass if you can get a free substitute up after paralysis. Also allows for a switch without risking damage on the switch-in if Lopunny is slower than your opponent.. if Lopunny isn't KO'd anyway.
Main Purpose is to get Rain Dance off and switch to a good counter.
Some blend of HP and Defense EVs: About 180-200 HP
252 Speed EVs
Nidoking@Black Sludge
Relaxed/Sassy Nature
Poison Point ability
-Sucker Punch
-Earth Power
-Thunder
-[any number of moves]
Sucker punch is Anti-Psychic, and is good priority to make up for the lack of speed.
Earth Power because most rocks and Steel types are much weaker to this than Earthquake with their defense spreads.
Thunder is anti-water, and even though it's a bit risky without rain, I think it's still worth having because it's so unexpected. I've OHKO'd most water types that weren't trained specifically for special defense with it.
Last attack could be anything from a water attack like Surf or Water Pulse.. Aqua Tail is possible after Platinum;
Focus Punch because it pairs well with sucker punch and for coverage, or Taunt to work with Sucker Punch;
Poison Jab for STAB and because some people just really like poison. Could go for Attract and change the ability to Rivalry, keeping in mind most pokemon with a gender imbalance are more often male [Lucario, Eeveelutions, the starters, Fossils, Magmortar, Electivire]. Makes for a nice powerup boost, and fills in the gap of female pokemon;
Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes are also very valid choices for team support.
A blend of HP and both Defenses on EVs. Less EVs in whichever defense your nature boosts, and about equal HP and the defense that isn't boosted.
Relicanth@Life Orb/Leftovers/Rindo Berry
Adamant Nature
Swift Swim Ability
-Head Smash
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Rain Dance
Head Smash because it hurts. And since this team needs Swift Swim, it hurts you too. Power of 225 after STAB
Waterfall because you get two for flinching. Power of 180 after STAB and Rain Dance, but it has a decent [20%] flinch chance. A good choice if A) you know head smash won't KO anyway. or B) you know Waterfall is plenty for the KO so you aren't hurting yourself.
Earthquake Will hit Empoleon for good damage, and quagsire for some at the least.
Rain Dance rather than Rock Polish because the rest of your team can use the backup dancer well.
Relicanth has naturally massive defense and can switch into physical attacks just as well as [if not better than] Skarmory. Relicanth has base 130 defense and 100 HP; Skarmory has base 140 defense and 75 HP. Without Defense training or nature, Relicanth can Switch into and survive a STAB'd Close Combat from Infernape [provided there is no swords dance or life orb in play for it]
Mantine @ Wacan Berry
Calm Nature
Water Absorb ability
-Water Pulse/Surf/Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Psybeam/Signal Beam/Confuse Ray
-Mirror Coat
Can switch in on and absorb water attacks, in case your opponent might be trying to take advantage of rain dance for themselves. Also is appealing because it can switch in on ground moves without levitate or an Ice weakness. Nidoking will pretty effectively lure out water types, and then Mantine will draw in electric attacks like moths [particularly Lapras and Starmie, I'd think]. Wacan Berry will weaken them, and let you return double damage back for it.
Water attack depends on your preferences. If you go for confuse ray, know that Mirror Coat is the only thing you'll have against fellow water types.
The only shared weakness with Relicanth is electric; Relicanth can handle at least one physical electric attack, and has Earthquake to counter with as well. Mantine can handle at least a single special one as well as counter-killing the pokemon who attacked.
Forretress or Scizor would both go well here... but again, you said no Bug types XD
Their only weaknesses are fire, and fire types will be wary of switching in on the rain. Even if they do attack, it will only be a single weakness and won't be doing 4x damage. Just something for you to consider, and I can make sets for both.
I was going to try and make this team without the use of more than two water types, but I don't know that I can now.
Kingdra [only weak to dragon]
Lanturn
Ludicolo
Scizor/Forretress
Toxicroak
Parasect
Magneton/Magnezone
Rotom
Electivire
Jolteon
those are other pokemon I would suggest
Well.. since you say no grass types, might I suggest a Rain Dance compatible team with no fire type? Weather support will help you against anything like Tyranitar, Hippowdon and Abomasnow [not at all sure how common any of those are in the tower]
Lopunny@Damp Rock
Timid/Jolly Nature
Cute Charm ability
-Substitute
-Rain Dance
-Thunder wave / Thunder
-Baton Pass
Substitute Will block incoming status attacks and could give you a free turn after using it.
Rain Dance is part of the support that this team will be able to use, but not rely on vitally
Thunder Wave Could chance at stunning the opponent for a turn, giving you a free substitute to set up.
Thunder won't be doing immense damage given Lopunny's special attack, but it won't miss in the rain and has a 30% paralysis chance.
Baton Pass if you can get a free substitute up after paralysis. Also allows for a switch without risking damage on the switch-in if Lopunny is slower than your opponent.. if Lopunny isn't KO'd anyway.
Main Purpose is to get Rain Dance off and switch to a good counter.
Some blend of HP and Defense EVs: About 180-200 HP
252 Speed EVs
Nidoking@Black Sludge
Relaxed/Sassy Nature
Poison Point ability
-Sucker Punch
-Earth Power
-Thunder
-[any number of moves]
Sucker punch is Anti-Psychic, and is good priority to make up for the lack of speed.
Earth Power because most rocks and Steel types are much weaker to this than Earthquake with their defense spreads.
Thunder is anti-water, and even though it's a bit risky without rain, I think it's still worth having because it's so unexpected. I've OHKO'd most water types that weren't trained specifically for special defense with it.
Last attack could be anything from a water attack like Surf or Water Pulse.. Aqua Tail is possible after Platinum;
Focus Punch because it pairs well with sucker punch and for coverage, or Taunt to work with Sucker Punch;
Poison Jab for STAB and because some people just really like poison. Could go for Attract and change the ability to Rivalry, keeping in mind most pokemon with a gender imbalance are more often male [Lucario, Eeveelutions, the starters, Fossils, Magmortar, Electivire]. Makes for a nice powerup boost, and fills in the gap of female pokemon;
Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes are also very valid choices for team support.
A blend of HP and both Defenses on EVs. Less EVs in whichever defense your nature boosts, and about equal HP and the defense that isn't boosted.
Relicanth@Life Orb/Leftovers/Rindo Berry
Adamant Nature
Swift Swim Ability
-Head Smash
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Rain Dance
Head Smash because it hurts. And since this team needs Swift Swim, it hurts you too. Power of 225 after STAB
Waterfall because you get two for flinching. Power of 180 after STAB and Rain Dance, but it has a decent [20%] flinch chance. A good choice if A) you know head smash won't KO anyway. or B) you know Waterfall is plenty for the KO so you aren't hurting yourself.
Earthquake Will hit Empoleon for good damage, and quagsire for some at the least.
Rain Dance rather than Rock Polish because the rest of your team can use the backup dancer well.
Relicanth has naturally massive defense and can switch into physical attacks just as well as [if not better than] Skarmory. Relicanth has base 130 defense and 100 HP; Skarmory has base 140 defense and 75 HP. Without Defense training or nature, Relicanth can Switch into and survive a STAB'd Close Combat from Infernape [provided there is no swords dance or life orb in play for it]
Mantine @ Wacan Berry
Calm Nature
Water Absorb ability
-Water Pulse/Surf/Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Psybeam/Signal Beam/Confuse Ray
-Mirror Coat
Can switch in on and absorb water attacks, in case your opponent might be trying to take advantage of rain dance for themselves. Also is appealing because it can switch in on ground moves without levitate or an Ice weakness. Nidoking will pretty effectively lure out water types, and then Mantine will draw in electric attacks like moths [particularly Lapras and Starmie, I'd think]. Wacan Berry will weaken them, and let you return double damage back for it.
Water attack depends on your preferences. If you go for confuse ray, know that Mirror Coat is the only thing you'll have against fellow water types.
The only shared weakness with Relicanth is electric; Relicanth can handle at least one physical electric attack, and has Earthquake to counter with as well. Mantine can handle at least a single special one as well as counter-killing the pokemon who attacked.
Forretress or Scizor would both go well here... but again, you said no Bug types XD
Their only weaknesses are fire, and fire types will be wary of switching in on the rain. Even if they do attack, it will only be a single weakness and won't be doing 4x damage. Just something for you to consider, and I can make sets for both.
I was going to try and make this team without the use of more than two water types, but I don't know that I can now.
Kingdra [only weak to dragon]
Lanturn
Ludicolo
Scizor/Forretress
Toxicroak
Parasect
Magneton/Magnezone
Rotom
Electivire
Jolteon
those are other pokemon I would suggest
Ruko
Bearded Trout Warrior
Comp has died on me twice while trying to post here, so I'm going to be editting things in another time. When this message is replaced with something along the lines of "Finished Editting", you'll know I'm done.
Starting with just basic movesets, and editting in explainations sometime tomorrow.
Ludicolo @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
Rain Dish ability
-Leech Seed
-Ice Beam
-Rain Dance / Toxic / Surf / Energy Ball
-Protect / Substitute / Rain Dance / Toxic
Kingdra @ Wide Lens / Petaya Berry
Modest Nature
Swift Swim ability
- Hydro Pump
- Dragon Pulse
- Ice Beam / Disable
- Rain Dance / Disable
Lanturn @ Brightpowder
Modest Nature
Volt Absorb ability
-Thunder
-Surf / Water Pulse / Hydro Pump
-Thunder Wave
-Confuse Ray / Rain Dance
Rotom @ Brightpowder
Timid Nature
Levitate Ability
-Thunder
-Dark Pulse / Shadow Ball
-Thunderwave
-Confuse Ray
Scizor @ Muscle Band
Adamant Nature
Technician Ability
-X-Scissor
-Quick Attack / Metal Claw
-Brick Break
-Swords Dance
Scizor @ Muscle Band
Adamant Nature
Swarm Ability
-X-Scissor
-Iron Head
-Brick Break
-Agility
Forretress @ Something or another
Relaxed Nature
Sturdy Ability
-Gyro Ball
-Earthquake
-Revenge
-Explosion
Toxicroak @ Salac Berry
Adamant Nature
Dry Skin ability
-Sucker Punch
-Focus Punch
-Poison Jab / Earthquake
-Substitute
Magneton @ Chople Berry
Timid Nature
Magnet Pull ability
-Magnet Rise
-Tri Attack
-Thunder / Discharge / Thunderbolt
-Flash Cannon / Mirror Shot
Electivire @ Expert Belt
Adamant Nature
Motor Drive ability
-Brick Break / Cross Chop
-Earthquake
-Ice Punch
-Thunder / Thunderpunch
Jolteon @ Petaya Berry
Modest Nature
Volt Absorb ability
-Thunder
-Shadow Ball
-Charge Beam / Hidden Power
-Substitute / Wish / Yawn
Lucario @ Something generic
Modest Nature
Steadfast ability
-Aura Sphere
-Water Pulse
-Psychic
-Dark Pulse
Lucario @ Something Generic
Rash Nature
Inner Focus Ability
-Close Combat / Aura Sphere
-Dark Pulse / Crunch / Ice Punch
-Water Pulse
-Agility
Starting with just basic movesets, and editting in explainations sometime tomorrow.
Ludicolo @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
Rain Dish ability
-Leech Seed
-Ice Beam
-Rain Dance / Toxic / Surf / Energy Ball
-Protect / Substitute / Rain Dance / Toxic
Kingdra @ Wide Lens / Petaya Berry
Modest Nature
Swift Swim ability
- Hydro Pump
- Dragon Pulse
- Ice Beam / Disable
- Rain Dance / Disable
Lanturn @ Brightpowder
Modest Nature
Volt Absorb ability
-Thunder
-Surf / Water Pulse / Hydro Pump
-Thunder Wave
-Confuse Ray / Rain Dance
Rotom @ Brightpowder
Timid Nature
Levitate Ability
-Thunder
-Dark Pulse / Shadow Ball
-Thunderwave
-Confuse Ray
Scizor @ Muscle Band
Adamant Nature
Technician Ability
-X-Scissor
-Quick Attack / Metal Claw
-Brick Break
-Swords Dance
Scizor @ Muscle Band
Adamant Nature
Swarm Ability
-X-Scissor
-Iron Head
-Brick Break
-Agility
Forretress @ Something or another
Relaxed Nature
Sturdy Ability
-Gyro Ball
-Earthquake
-Revenge
-Explosion
Toxicroak @ Salac Berry
Adamant Nature
Dry Skin ability
-Sucker Punch
-Focus Punch
-Poison Jab / Earthquake
-Substitute
Magneton @ Chople Berry
Timid Nature
Magnet Pull ability
-Magnet Rise
-Tri Attack
-Thunder / Discharge / Thunderbolt
-Flash Cannon / Mirror Shot
Electivire @ Expert Belt
Adamant Nature
Motor Drive ability
-Brick Break / Cross Chop
-Earthquake
-Ice Punch
-Thunder / Thunderpunch
Jolteon @ Petaya Berry
Modest Nature
Volt Absorb ability
-Thunder
-Shadow Ball
-Charge Beam / Hidden Power
-Substitute / Wish / Yawn
Lucario @ Something generic
Modest Nature
Steadfast ability
-Aura Sphere
-Water Pulse
-Psychic
-Dark Pulse
Lucario @ Something Generic
Rash Nature
Inner Focus Ability
-Close Combat / Aura Sphere
-Dark Pulse / Crunch / Ice Punch
-Water Pulse
-Agility
The Lucario with Physical and Special Moves could use Life Orb nicely.
Tentacruel deserves mention for taking Grass moves and really hurting Leech Seed users (Breloom, you come to mind).
Tentacruel@Black Sludge
Calm Nature
Liquid Ooze Ability
-Surf
-Ice Beam/Sludge Bomb
-See Below
-See Below
Rapid Spin/Toxic Spikes/Reflect/Mega Drain/Knock Off
Any of the options abve will work. Do note that you will need to breed Rapid Spin onto a Tentacruel then get a Platinum tutor to teach it Knock Off. Also, if you do use Ludicolo's Toxic, Toxic Spikes is obsolete.
Surf gives STAB.
Ice Beam hits the Grass, though Poison will too.
Sludge Bomb gets STAB.
Rapid Spin gets rid of entry hazards.
Toxic Spikes to set Poison in.
Knock Off to knock off items (Not sure how viable this is in the Battle Tower).
Mega Drain to hit other Waters, and a form (Albeit a little unreliable) recovery.
Reflect will boost its lower Defense stat.
Could comment on other sets, but lack of time makes me not do so.
Tentacruel deserves mention for taking Grass moves and really hurting Leech Seed users (Breloom, you come to mind).
Tentacruel@Black Sludge
Calm Nature
Liquid Ooze Ability
-Surf
-Ice Beam/Sludge Bomb
-See Below
-See Below
Rapid Spin/Toxic Spikes/Reflect/Mega Drain/Knock Off
Any of the options abve will work. Do note that you will need to breed Rapid Spin onto a Tentacruel then get a Platinum tutor to teach it Knock Off. Also, if you do use Ludicolo's Toxic, Toxic Spikes is obsolete.
Surf gives STAB.
Ice Beam hits the Grass, though Poison will too.
Sludge Bomb gets STAB.
Rapid Spin gets rid of entry hazards.
Toxic Spikes to set Poison in.
Knock Off to knock off items (Not sure how viable this is in the Battle Tower).
Mega Drain to hit other Waters, and a form (Albeit a little unreliable) recovery.
Reflect will boost its lower Defense stat.
Could comment on other sets, but lack of time makes me not do so.
Ruko
Bearded Trout Warrior
I prioritized the life Orb to be on Relicanth, and I've also grown rather lazy now XD
If you'd like an explaination on any of those sets, tell me which ones, Aura ^^;
At the same time, I'm not entirely sure the Water Pulsing Lucario is worth it; it's still only a moderately powered attack after the rain boost. I'm thinking a more generic one would go better, or Jet's that can hit 14 types for SE damage. Expert Belt for the win XD
If you'd like an explaination on any of those sets, tell me which ones, Aura ^^;
At the same time, I'm not entirely sure the Water Pulsing Lucario is worth it; it's still only a moderately powered attack after the rain boost. I'm thinking a more generic one would go better, or Jet's that can hit 14 types for SE damage. Expert Belt for the win XD
Heh, how could I ever forget the one Pokemon other than Manaphy and Phione that gets Hydration, Dewgong.
Dewgong@Leftovers/Damp Rock
Hydration Ability
Modest Nature
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Rest
-Rain Dance/Signal Beam/HP Electric (Or most HP types in general)
Surf and Ice Beam both get STAB.
Rest in tandem with Hydration is awesome. Instant full HP healing.
Rain Dance to keep the rain up, or a third move if you can get Rain Dance from somewhere else.
Dewgong@Leftovers/Damp Rock
Hydration Ability
Modest Nature
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Rest
-Rain Dance/Signal Beam/HP Electric (Or most HP types in general)
Surf and Ice Beam both get STAB.
Rest in tandem with Hydration is awesome. Instant full HP healing.
Rain Dance to keep the rain up, or a third move if you can get Rain Dance from somewhere else.
Explain these ones Please Ruko,
Scizor @ Muscle Band
Adamant Nature
Technician Ability
-X-Scissor
-Quick Attack / Metal Claw
-Brick Break
-Swords Dance
Scizor @ Muscle Band
Adamant Nature
Swarm Ability
-X-Scissor
-Iron Head
-Brick Break
-Agility
Jolteon @ Petaya Berry
Modest Nature
Volt Absorb ability
-Thunder
-Shadow Ball
-Charge Beam / Hidden Power
-Substitute / Wish / Yawn
Lucario @ Something generic
Modest Nature
Steadfast ability
-Aura Sphere
-Water Pulse
-Psychic
-Dark Pulse
Lucario @ Something Generic
Rash Nature
Inner Focus Ability
-Close Combat / Aura Sphere
-Dark Pulse / Crunch / Ice Punch
-Water Pulse
-Agility
And that Dewgong sounds epic! *makes mental note to have Dewgong*
Scizor @ Muscle Band
Adamant Nature
Technician Ability
-X-Scissor
-Quick Attack / Metal Claw
-Brick Break
-Swords Dance
Scizor @ Muscle Band
Adamant Nature
Swarm Ability
-X-Scissor
-Iron Head
-Brick Break
-Agility
Jolteon @ Petaya Berry
Modest Nature
Volt Absorb ability
-Thunder
-Shadow Ball
-Charge Beam / Hidden Power
-Substitute / Wish / Yawn
Lucario @ Something generic
Modest Nature
Steadfast ability
-Aura Sphere
-Water Pulse
-Psychic
-Dark Pulse
Lucario @ Something Generic
Rash Nature
Inner Focus Ability
-Close Combat / Aura Sphere
-Dark Pulse / Crunch / Ice Punch
-Water Pulse
-Agility
And that Dewgong sounds epic! *makes mental note to have Dewgong*
I can Explain the first Scizor one.
Sorry Ruko if you wanted to explain them. >>
The first set revolves around the ability Technician, which increases ALL moves that have a base power less than 60 by 1.5 times.
Look at this:
Scizor @ Muscle Band
Adamant Nature
Technician Ability
-X-Scissor (base power:80. Just a good, solid hitting move.)
-Quick Attack (base power: 40. After getting the boost: 60)
OR
-Metal Claw (base power: 50. After boost:75. Can also raise attack to hit harder)
-Brick Break (base power 75. Coverage, probably.)
-Swords Dance (Just to raise Attack power)
Ruko could probably explain further.
Sorry Ruko if you wanted to explain them. >>
The first set revolves around the ability Technician, which increases ALL moves that have a base power less than 60 by 1.5 times.
Look at this:
Scizor @ Muscle Band
Adamant Nature
Technician Ability
-X-Scissor (base power:80. Just a good, solid hitting move.)
-Quick Attack (base power: 40. After getting the boost: 60)
OR
-Metal Claw (base power: 50. After boost:75. Can also raise attack to hit harder)
-Brick Break (base power 75. Coverage, probably.)
-Swords Dance (Just to raise Attack power)
Ruko could probably explain further.
Ruko
Bearded Trout Warrior
Scizor @ Muscle Band
Adamant
Technician
-X-Scissor
-Quick Attack / Metal Claw
-Brick Break
-Swords Dance
X-Scissor has a power of 120 after STAB
Quick Attack a power of 60 after Tech and will always strike first
Metal Claw has a power of 112 after Tech and STAB as well as a 10% chance of raising attack. Also gives ghost coverage that the set lacks with Quick Attack
Brick Break Covers Steel
Swords Dance to double attack power when you can.
Shado was pretty well on with her description XD
Scizor @ Muscle Band
Adamant
Swarm
-X-Scissor
-Iron Head
-Brick Break
-Agility
X-Scissor will hit for the same 120 damage as before, and 180 when your HP is below 1/3
Iron Head takes advantage of the raised speed and has a power of 120 after STAB with a 30% flinch chance. Should be used over X-Scissor when you don't have Swarm helping you and it isn't ineffective.
Brick Break again for Steel coverage
Agility will double your speed, putting you faster than most foes if I'm not mistaken
Jolteon @ Petaya Berry
Modest
Volt absorb
-Thunder
-Shadow Ball
-Baton Pass / Hidden Power / Charge Beam
-Substitute / Wish / Yawn / Baton Pass
Slightly changed from before
Thunder will take advantage of the rain for you, giving you a powerful and accurate attack with a 30% paralysis rate. 180 power after STAB
Shadow Ball will give you coverage of certain pokemon. Steelix is a problem, however.
and then there are a few combinations of things. I tried to line up the attacks with how they should be paired together XD
-
Charge Beam is a good finisher attack, such as when you first send Jolteon out if your foe only has a little HP left. Can be used in compound with Thunder, don't worry about the double STAB
Baton Pass will allow you to pass the boost you may have gotten from charge beam to another pokemon, and will also allow you to escape from Arena trap if whoever they sent out has it.
-
Substitute Will protect you from any incoming status you might see coming, using 3 will activate your Petaya berry to be baton passed, and if the substitute survives, you can even pass that.
Baton Pass Will let you pass your petaya boost and possibly a substitute for protection to another pokemon on your team.
-
Hidden Power If you can get a good one, can be a perfectly viable third attack.
Wish To be used on the last turn before Jolteon is KO'd if it suits your team's current need. Can cancel the damage of Stealth Rock on whoever you send in next, or just heal an injured team-mate. Wish will however fail if you live through the turn you used it on, and die the next turn.
Yawn To be used much like wish. Use it and be KO'd. Your opponent then has to choose whether to let their pokemon fall asleep, or switch and give you a free turn to build your stats, or get a free attack off XD
As I said on the lucarios, I don't think the water pulsing ones would be a good idea anymore XD
Water pulse doesn't get any higher power than average, and a more standard Lucario would work just fine.
As to why to use a Lucario at all? Because they're great sweepers and you never know what's coming from one until it hits because they have so many attacks. A mixed Lucario seems the most potent for suprise to me... once people see one physical or one special attack, they assume all physical or all special.
Lucario @ Generic
Neutral or Defense lowering nature
Inner Focus
-Aura Sphere
-Ice Punch / Rock Slide or Stone Edge
-Thunder Punch / Crunch
-Agility
Training Attack and Special attack.
Boltbeam punches offer neutral coverage on everything else, and Aura Sphere is just lethal.
The punces require Platinum... or your action replay >>
Rock Slide vs Stone Edge
Rock Slide has, Calculating accuracy, a 27% chance of flinching your opponent. This allows You to attack twice, and in essence, do double damage. This can also happen multiple times in a row, essentially allowing for triple or further damage with enough luck.
This is provided the attacking pokemon is faster, as a Lucario with Agility will be.
Stone Edge has, Calculating accuracy, a 10% critical chance rate, doing double damage. This effect, since it doesn't stun your opponent, can't be stacked multiple times.
Rock Slide has a 10% chance of missing.
Stone Edge has a 20% chance of missing.
Rock Slide has 75 Power
Stone Edge has 100 Power
So Stone Edge will do more damage when it does double, but is much less likely to do double [Again, this is if you count attacking twice in a row as double damage as I do].
And this is why I think Rock Slide is entirely superior to Stone Edge on a fast pokemon
It's still your choice, of course.
Adamant
Technician
-X-Scissor
-Quick Attack / Metal Claw
-Brick Break
-Swords Dance
X-Scissor has a power of 120 after STAB
Quick Attack a power of 60 after Tech and will always strike first
Metal Claw has a power of 112 after Tech and STAB as well as a 10% chance of raising attack. Also gives ghost coverage that the set lacks with Quick Attack
Brick Break Covers Steel
Swords Dance to double attack power when you can.
Shado was pretty well on with her description XD
Scizor @ Muscle Band
Adamant
Swarm
-X-Scissor
-Iron Head
-Brick Break
-Agility
X-Scissor will hit for the same 120 damage as before, and 180 when your HP is below 1/3
Iron Head takes advantage of the raised speed and has a power of 120 after STAB with a 30% flinch chance. Should be used over X-Scissor when you don't have Swarm helping you and it isn't ineffective.
Brick Break again for Steel coverage
Agility will double your speed, putting you faster than most foes if I'm not mistaken
Jolteon @ Petaya Berry
Modest
Volt absorb
-Thunder
-Shadow Ball
-Baton Pass / Hidden Power / Charge Beam
-Substitute / Wish / Yawn / Baton Pass
Slightly changed from before
Thunder will take advantage of the rain for you, giving you a powerful and accurate attack with a 30% paralysis rate. 180 power after STAB
Shadow Ball will give you coverage of certain pokemon. Steelix is a problem, however.
and then there are a few combinations of things. I tried to line up the attacks with how they should be paired together XD
-
Charge Beam is a good finisher attack, such as when you first send Jolteon out if your foe only has a little HP left. Can be used in compound with Thunder, don't worry about the double STAB
Baton Pass will allow you to pass the boost you may have gotten from charge beam to another pokemon, and will also allow you to escape from Arena trap if whoever they sent out has it.
-
Substitute Will protect you from any incoming status you might see coming, using 3 will activate your Petaya berry to be baton passed, and if the substitute survives, you can even pass that.
Baton Pass Will let you pass your petaya boost and possibly a substitute for protection to another pokemon on your team.
-
Hidden Power If you can get a good one, can be a perfectly viable third attack.
Wish To be used on the last turn before Jolteon is KO'd if it suits your team's current need. Can cancel the damage of Stealth Rock on whoever you send in next, or just heal an injured team-mate. Wish will however fail if you live through the turn you used it on, and die the next turn.
Yawn To be used much like wish. Use it and be KO'd. Your opponent then has to choose whether to let their pokemon fall asleep, or switch and give you a free turn to build your stats, or get a free attack off XD
As I said on the lucarios, I don't think the water pulsing ones would be a good idea anymore XD
Water pulse doesn't get any higher power than average, and a more standard Lucario would work just fine.
As to why to use a Lucario at all? Because they're great sweepers and you never know what's coming from one until it hits because they have so many attacks. A mixed Lucario seems the most potent for suprise to me... once people see one physical or one special attack, they assume all physical or all special.
Lucario @ Generic
Neutral or Defense lowering nature
Inner Focus
-Aura Sphere
-Ice Punch / Rock Slide or Stone Edge
-Thunder Punch / Crunch
-Agility
Training Attack and Special attack.
Boltbeam punches offer neutral coverage on everything else, and Aura Sphere is just lethal.
The punces require Platinum... or your action replay >>
Rock Slide vs Stone Edge
Rock Slide has, Calculating accuracy, a 27% chance of flinching your opponent. This allows You to attack twice, and in essence, do double damage. This can also happen multiple times in a row, essentially allowing for triple or further damage with enough luck.
This is provided the attacking pokemon is faster, as a Lucario with Agility will be.
Stone Edge has, Calculating accuracy, a 10% critical chance rate, doing double damage. This effect, since it doesn't stun your opponent, can't be stacked multiple times.
Rock Slide has a 10% chance of missing.
Stone Edge has a 20% chance of missing.
Rock Slide has 75 Power
Stone Edge has 100 Power
So Stone Edge will do more damage when it does double, but is much less likely to do double [Again, this is if you count attacking twice in a row as double damage as I do].
And this is why I think Rock Slide is entirely superior to Stone Edge on a fast pokemon
It's still your choice, of course.
Do of course note that Stone Edge has a chance of bypassing any Defense boosts with a Crit, while Rock Slide has no such luck. Even 60% flinch(Serene Grace Abuse) isn't perfectly reliable. And the lack of power is to be desired. 25 Points in Base Power is quite noticeable, as some OHKOs on some Pokemon by Stone Edge turn into 2HKOs with Rock Slide.
In all honesty, Lucario should be using Close Combat with Special moves if you intend to use it as a wall-breaker. Aura Sphere can only 2HKO with a Choice Specs on Blissey. Close Combat has a considerably higher chance of OHKOing.
So, I reccommend:
Lucario@Life Orb/Choice Scarf
Inner Focus Ability
Mild/Rash/Lonely/Naughty
-Close Combat
-Agility/Stone Edge/Rock Slide
-Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball
-HP Ice/Ice Punch
Anywho, Close Combat is the main option against the likes of Snorlax and Blissey.
The ice move is next. If HP Ice is something you can get, go for it. Dispatching Gliscor and Hippowdon is awesome.
Dragons will fall quite quickly to Ice Punch, but Gliscor and Hippowdon can sponge those Ice Punches somewhat effectively.
Dark Pulse has a flinch rate, Shadow ball has the Drop in specail Defense. Pick it as you see, the coverage loss is minimal.
Now, if you use Agility, I know I might get some sort of reaction for this, but, I'm going to say invest into some Speed EVs (196, +4 for every point away from 31). With the EVs, you should be outrunning all Pokemon after a Single Agility (Barring IVs and an annoying bug that rhymes with Injask.), even Base 130s, Pro Speed nature with a single boost in Speed (BP'd Dragon Dance, Choice Scarf).
If you do use the Choice Scarf, Rock Slide or Stone Edge. It's up to you, but note that its damage output is quite signicifcant and Rock Slide does lack the raw power. But I suppose the 27% chance of Flinch is somewhat handy.
And Technically, Boltbeam doesn't cover everything. I'm the one who said and corrected myself as well. Chinchou and its line, Magnemite and its line, Shedinja and one more I believe. Cant remember right now. As a note, Fire and Dragon hit everything but Heatran. And Fighting and Dragon hits everything but Shedinja. To my point, I'm just saying the Boltbeam doesn't offer perfect coverage on everything as Ruko stated before..
As for the HP on Jolteon. HP Ice is the number one option.
Lack of mentioning Signal Beam too. With Shadow Ball/Thunder/Signal Beam, only Dialga and Steelix won't be hit for neutral damage. Note it is Platinum only though.
And on Scizor, unless Ruko didn't use Platinum moves (which is highly unlikely, since he mentioned that Thunder and Ice Punch were Platinum only), Bullet Punch should be the main STAB option. Base Power of 90 with Tech and STAB factored in. And assuming Perfect IVs, you'll outspeed +1 Speed, Base 100, Neutral Speed Natured Pokemon .
In all honesty, Lucario should be using Close Combat with Special moves if you intend to use it as a wall-breaker. Aura Sphere can only 2HKO with a Choice Specs on Blissey. Close Combat has a considerably higher chance of OHKOing.
So, I reccommend:
Lucario@Life Orb/Choice Scarf
Inner Focus Ability
Mild/Rash/Lonely/Naughty
-Close Combat
-Agility/Stone Edge/Rock Slide
-Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball
-HP Ice/Ice Punch
Anywho, Close Combat is the main option against the likes of Snorlax and Blissey.
The ice move is next. If HP Ice is something you can get, go for it. Dispatching Gliscor and Hippowdon is awesome.
Dragons will fall quite quickly to Ice Punch, but Gliscor and Hippowdon can sponge those Ice Punches somewhat effectively.
Dark Pulse has a flinch rate, Shadow ball has the Drop in specail Defense. Pick it as you see, the coverage loss is minimal.
Now, if you use Agility, I know I might get some sort of reaction for this, but, I'm going to say invest into some Speed EVs (196, +4 for every point away from 31). With the EVs, you should be outrunning all Pokemon after a Single Agility (Barring IVs and an annoying bug that rhymes with Injask.), even Base 130s, Pro Speed nature with a single boost in Speed (BP'd Dragon Dance, Choice Scarf).
If you do use the Choice Scarf, Rock Slide or Stone Edge. It's up to you, but note that its damage output is quite signicifcant and Rock Slide does lack the raw power. But I suppose the 27% chance of Flinch is somewhat handy.
And Technically, Boltbeam doesn't cover everything. I'm the one who said and corrected myself as well. Chinchou and its line, Magnemite and its line, Shedinja and one more I believe. Cant remember right now. As a note, Fire and Dragon hit everything but Heatran. And Fighting and Dragon hits everything but Shedinja. To my point, I'm just saying the Boltbeam doesn't offer perfect coverage on everything as Ruko stated before..
As for the HP on Jolteon. HP Ice is the number one option.
Lack of mentioning Signal Beam too. With Shadow Ball/Thunder/Signal Beam, only Dialga and Steelix won't be hit for neutral damage. Note it is Platinum only though.
And on Scizor, unless Ruko didn't use Platinum moves (which is highly unlikely, since he mentioned that Thunder and Ice Punch were Platinum only), Bullet Punch should be the main STAB option. Base Power of 90 with Tech and STAB factored in. And assuming Perfect IVs, you'll outspeed +1 Speed, Base 100, Neutral Speed Natured Pokemon .
Here's my mixed Lucario set, for the sake of reference:
Lucario @ Life Orb
252 ATK/252 SP.ATK/6 SPEED
Hasty
Steadfast *facepalm*
- Earthquake/Me First
- Rock Slide (used to be Stone Edge)
- Aura Sphere
- Agility
Agility to make up for only 6 EVs on the Speed, which allows for the Attack/Sp.Attack stats to both reach impressive heights (well over 300 on both.) STAB'ed Aura Sphere will hurt Skarmory and Forretress badly and most likely OHKO them, Me First with Agility there is more of a fun option than anything, but it works well. Rock Slide's flinch hax along with the Agility boosts are surprisingly reliable, plus the move puts a nasty dent in Regice. Earthquake is there purely for its power/accuracy combination - any Blissey that comes in will take quite a nasty hit from this if it doesn't get the kill.
One thing of note about Rock Slide vs Stone Edge, from my personal experience: I absolutely HATE Stone Edge's accuracy - most of the time, it seems more like 50% than 80%, and the amount of times the move bit me in the ass and got me killed was just too much, so I ditched it. As for the increased crit chance, it's barely noticeable - Stone Edge didn't seem to crit any more often than my other moves did, effectively making it, in practice, little more than a 100 Power coin-flip crap shoot that'd either do damage or get me murdered. Needless to say, it had to go. In contrast, Rock Slide's 90% accuracy does actually seem like 90% accuracy, plus the flinch hax chance is, in practice, a lot better than it sounds - 27% is pretty good odds from what I've gotten out of it. As you can see, I prefer Rock Slide to Stone Edge by an overwhelming margin, but it is purely personal choice as to whether you opt for Power or Accuracy.
Lucario @ Life Orb
252 ATK/252 SP.ATK/6 SPEED
Hasty
Steadfast *facepalm*
- Earthquake/Me First
- Rock Slide (used to be Stone Edge)
- Aura Sphere
- Agility
Agility to make up for only 6 EVs on the Speed, which allows for the Attack/Sp.Attack stats to both reach impressive heights (well over 300 on both.) STAB'ed Aura Sphere will hurt Skarmory and Forretress badly and most likely OHKO them, Me First with Agility there is more of a fun option than anything, but it works well. Rock Slide's flinch hax along with the Agility boosts are surprisingly reliable, plus the move puts a nasty dent in Regice. Earthquake is there purely for its power/accuracy combination - any Blissey that comes in will take quite a nasty hit from this if it doesn't get the kill.
One thing of note about Rock Slide vs Stone Edge, from my personal experience: I absolutely HATE Stone Edge's accuracy - most of the time, it seems more like 50% than 80%, and the amount of times the move bit me in the ass and got me killed was just too much, so I ditched it. As for the increased crit chance, it's barely noticeable - Stone Edge didn't seem to crit any more often than my other moves did, effectively making it, in practice, little more than a 100 Power coin-flip crap shoot that'd either do damage or get me murdered. Needless to say, it had to go. In contrast, Rock Slide's 90% accuracy does actually seem like 90% accuracy, plus the flinch hax chance is, in practice, a lot better than it sounds - 27% is pretty good odds from what I've gotten out of it. As you can see, I prefer Rock Slide to Stone Edge by an overwhelming margin, but it is purely personal choice as to whether you opt for Power or Accuracy.
Ruko
Bearded Trout Warrior
Blissey aside, how many other pokemon weak to fighting have MUCH higher defense than special defense? Skarmory is also at note here, where Aura Sphere will do as much if not more than Thunderpunch.
I've seen a lot more Skarmory than blissey too.
Aura Sphere + Boltbeam covers more types for super-effective than Dragon + Fire with Aura Sphere.. I chose it for that reason. And Aura Sphere hits both Chinchou and Magneton while Shedinja is still free to muck about.
On that note, Aura Sphere WILL do more damage to Skarmory than Thunderpunch would - An unboosted Fire Fang from Garchomp in comparison, with 252 EVs on Garchomp's Attack and same to Skarmory's Defense does barely 33% damage to Skarmory, assuming matching IVs on those stats. I don't see Lucario's ThunderPunch being any more effective than that to be honest, even with the Life Orb. Aura Sphere, on the other hand, would either do severe damage or be an OHKO.
It has been a very long time since I last posted. Anyways I know you are against grass types but if you get a snover with 25+ IVs in Def, Sp.Def, and Sp.Atk. You can make an extremely powerful team.
Snover/Abomasnow
Item: Leftovers
Ingrain
Giga Drain
Ice Beam
(Rock/Misc) Type attack
Electivire
Item:Quick Claw
(Fighting)
(Electric)
(Normal)
(Dark/Water)
Garchomp
Item: Any
(Dragon)
(Ground)
(Dark)
(Fire)
This team works well if EV Trained properly Electivire and Garchomp both being sweepers and Abomasnow as a last resort leecher.
Snover/Abomasnow
Item: Leftovers
Ingrain
Giga Drain
Ice Beam
(Rock/Misc) Type attack
Electivire
Item:Quick Claw
(Fighting)
(Electric)
(Normal)
(Dark/Water)
Garchomp
Item: Any
(Dragon)
(Ground)
(Dark)
(Fire)
This team works well if EV Trained properly Electivire and Garchomp both being sweepers and Abomasnow as a last resort leecher.
An idea:
Glaceon@Leftovers TIMID
Blizzard (Grass/Ground/Flying cleared)
Hidden Power Fighting (Rock/Steel/Normal cleared)
Toxic (Defending move)
SEE BELOW
SAND ATTACK, DOUBLE TEAM, WATER PULSE, HYPER BEAM, SWIFT, BATON PASS, MIMIC, SUBSTITUTE, TICKLE, WISH, ENDURE, SHADOW BALL, BARRIER, MIRROR COAT, PROTECT, SIGNAL BEAM
http://serebii.net/pokedex-dp/471.shtml
You might also need the link above.
I'm happy to help!
Glaceon@Leftovers TIMID
Blizzard (Grass/Ground/Flying cleared)
Hidden Power Fighting (Rock/Steel/Normal cleared)
Toxic (Defending move)
SEE BELOW
SAND ATTACK, DOUBLE TEAM, WATER PULSE, HYPER BEAM, SWIFT, BATON PASS, MIMIC, SUBSTITUTE, TICKLE, WISH, ENDURE, SHADOW BALL, BARRIER, MIRROR COAT, PROTECT, SIGNAL BEAM
http://serebii.net/pokedex-dp/471.shtml
You might also need the link above.
I'm happy to help!