The "Dodge It" Problem

[PyroGaleZX]

DISCLAIMER
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The following is a personal opinion meant to generate discussion amongst Role Players. This is not an attack and is not intended to be an attack. No one is perfect and there is no perfect way to Role Play.
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To all Pokemon RPers, I am here today to discuss something I have seen a few times in RPs and done myself a bit. This thing I found is what I'm calling The Dodge It Problem, or TDIP for short. What I've found in my 3, almost 4 years of roleplaying on this site is that often people when engaged in a battle against other users will often call for their Pokemon to dodge attacks that living creatures can't physically avoid.

For example, I was a part of an RP where I used a Blaziken against someone else's Ash-Greninja, this took place before the new Battle Bond rules were in place. What happened was my Blaziken and the opponent Ash-Greninja got into a close-range battle, however, my own pride would not let my Blaziken get hit, in my head, I thought, "My Blaziken is better than this Greninja, I should try to make it win." I'm not proud of that moment, and I like to think I'm getting better through external roleplaying and starting to play Dungeons and Dragons.

And the dodge it problem doesn't just include people who have their Pokemon avoid impossible to dodge attacks, like a Piplup dodging a close-range Ember, or a Boldore jumping over a Driftblim to dodge its Ominous Wind. I'm also talking about stuff like a Mankey using Cross Chop to cut through a Thunderbolt, or a Wartortle using Withdraw to bounce the electricity off, random Mary Sue techniques that would never work in a realistic scenario.

As Stellar said in the rules of the Pokemon Role Play channel, roleplaying is telling a story with other people, and the thread creators have to be able to lead the others through the story, especially when it's custom made. I know it can seem tough to let your Pokemon lose to someone else but in an RP there needs to be give-and-take, not just all take, because then the story can fall apart and no one will be interested because they're too busy priding their character's win-loss record.

Speaking as a player that has been in RPs with people who have been a source of TDIP, it's not fun, personally, whenever someone just dodges for the sake of not losing, it doesn't make your character look better it can make the actual RPer look so egotistical that RPing a battle is pointless because it can take too long and be for nothing in the end.

I'm not making this post because of anyone, in particular, I just feel it is something that needs to be addressed more as it is a PRP concern.

 

[Merciless Medic]

So its taking me a while to make a post on this regarding the explanation of my answer in the poll, as well as my thoughts on what people have tried to regulate such problem.

I chose "no". Of course, I had done so before Pokecharms, but I did it within other universes due to my characters already being a Mary Sue and not understanding how gravity or physics work, so I technically did but not on this site. I didn't understand how gravity or physics work until I spent my first year here in Pokecharms. Granted, by then I was more mature about letting others hit my Pokemon/characters and having them lose. It's a wonderful way to show more egotistical characters that losing is a part of getting what you want, and trying to overcome that loss by learning what beat you. It's a great way to develop your character, especially with one who doesn't like losing.

I have seen people limit the amount of dodges someone can do. However, this can cause issues when you have ran out of dodges, but then your Pokemon is met with something they should be able to dodge and having to take the hit by throwing in an anti-deus ex machina. Not a big fan of those, as it can get quickly unrealistic. I understand that posts don't talk about how far a Pokemon is in relation to the other and how fast reaction speed time is between the trainer yelling their command to their Pokemon taking the command and figuring out the best course of action to use it, but I feel like these need to be addressed more often. If a Pokemon used Quick Attack or Extreme Speed or any other attack that has a high priority to dodge an incoming attack, they should dodge the attack thrown at them, unless the opponent has been trained to catch these Pokemon by predicting their movements and hit them.

Of course, then we have to talk about what the people and Pokemon have experienced in terms of opponents, how level-headed the Pokemon are, how much of an off day they are having (Pokemon can get the case of the Mondays too), among other things like mental/physical health that makes performing or battling difficult.

Honestly, pulling "my Pikachu takes a whole 3 minutes to land because Ash's Pikachu did something similar in the anime" seems to be more common than "there is even gravity over the planet and it takes an equal amount of time for the Pokemon to fall down as it took for the Pokemon to jump up, unless air resistance and weight and body orientation in the air are a thing, which they are." But most of the people on here likely didn't know that or it doesn't cross their mind when writing their post. Can't blame them, as I choose not to get into strenuous detail about how air resistance works when having my Pokemon fly through the air, so I don't expect people to write it out. I dont want posts to become like homework, since they come here to escape and be cool or make a fun story, not to have to deal with physics.

Though, I do expect a general understanding of physics and how fast Pokemon can be in general. However, there is a line between the Speed stat and how fast a Pokemon's top speed is if it is mentioned at all in media or the Pokedex entries. For example, Arcanine has a base Speed stat of 95, making it have a decent Speed, but still largely slow with other Pokemon who are bigger than them. What makes this weird is that the Pokedex entries state that they can run 6,200 miles (9,977.93 km) in one day and night, which is 24 hours. So either Arcanine's top speed is not a measure of its base Speed and base Speed is the reaction time they have in a battle, as well as how fast their lunge could be, or one of them is lying. XD Due to Arcanine's top speed being incredibly fast (running at 258.3 mph or 415.75 km/h), but they are slower than the majority of Pokemon, but some of these Pokemon's top speed is mentioned to be slower than Arcanine's.... this is just a mess. XD

So yea, I understand that trying to gleam anything between Speed stat and top speed and how this can relate to dodging is extremely difficult unless you have a way to figure this out. I probably just went through a couple paragraphs explaining nonsense most would likely not understand but that's the point. Its simpler to not deal with that and just "eyeball" it, if you will, and figure out in your best judgment if the Pokemon you know the skillset and experiences of can dodge something.

Of course, realistically, a Pokemon will not let themselves get hit and will try their best to keep their health and stamina as high as they can to stay awake long enough to outlast the enemy, or they go all out to overwhelm the enemy into unconsciousness, and they try to do it with as much efficiency as their body and training will allow. But Pokemon may be grazed by attacks as they dodge (as attacks aren't just centered into one point and can flare out into a cone or follow the target) and I don't see enough of that in the RPs. I don't see Pokemon tumbling into the earth like one would see a sports person do to dodge people chasing them or to hurriedly get into the goal. I don't see Pokemon realistically getting hurt from being thrown into objects or bashing into them or slipping off one (of course, this mostly applies to injured, tired, paralyzed, or otherwise clumsy Pokemon and may not be seen by those who are more purposeful in their movements and don't run around bashing into everything with as much recklessness as one would allow). However, if a Pokemon who is known to be weak in both power and endurance, yet is agile and quick enough to dodge most attacks should be allowed. That is fine, but don't expect them to be too strong. I can't have a Pokemon expect to do more damage when they are spending most of their time avoiding being hit.

These are just my thoughts. Dodging, when done right, can make a story or a battle tense and amazing. When not done right, they can break it and destroy the will of other RPers from playing the story.

 

[Banan-chan]

I've never had an OC battle before. How much dodging is acceptable? Right now I'm thinking every third counterattack can be started with a dodge that doesn't fully negate damage.

 

[PyroGaleZX]

Honestly @HtaLtlSstr there's no "acceptable" amount. I wouldn't personally recommend following an every third counterattack rule as then battles can become very systematic. I'd recommend reading through the post by @Merciless Medic as they do a good job and give some excellent points towards dodging in an RP.

 

[Merciless Medic]

I've never had an OC battle before. How much dodging is acceptable? Right now I'm thinking every third counterattack can be started with a dodge that doesn't fully negate damage.

Yes, @PyroGaleZX is correct in that there is no correct amount to dodge. But I'd say keep it realistic. If it is vague on how far apart the Pokemon/OCs are from each other, ask the other RPer in a discussion thread and, if they don't know, work it out with them so you two don't end up misunderstanding how far away the characters are. I'm not talking about exact measurements (I don't want people having to map out exactly that their Blastoise is 20ft and 4.88 inches from the Charizard, who is also 10 ft and 9.2 inches in the air. That's too much). Give a generalized brief description of where you think your Pokemon are in relation to the other, talk it over if it makes sense, and then keep going. What obstacles are in the way, what is the environment like, how long does it take for the Pokemon to register what their trainer had said, do the Pokemon do a sneaky attack along with the instructed attack (like if Gengar were using Psychic but powers up a Drain Punch that is slightly slower to charge up due to already using a move but, once the opponent gets close enough, it won't quite matter and the Drain Punch can be used against the opponent. I would suggest avoid using the same body part for a move, like don't use Zen Headbutt and then try and charge up an Iron Head while executing Zen Headbutt. That doesn't exactly work like that. To use up more energy and slightly more time to charge up, you can have two moves be used simultaneously, regardless of where the moves are located on the body. But this can really hurt the Pokemon or tire them out a lot faster, so the Pokemin have to have been trained to utilize such tricks).

You can also adopt a real time system similar to some JRPGs instead of going by turns, and have your Pokemon, if they are fast and have good stamina, use one to two moves quickly. Remember that this drains the Pokemon's stamina (not HP, but it can be the baseline for how long they can last) and can burn out their reserves for their moves (similar to PP). I generally go by a 3-7 seconds between a trainer yelling out an order and the Pokemon then doing the order, as it takes about a second for the trainer to yell it out (and an indeterminate amount of time to think of an attack), and then another two seconds or more to generate enough power to use the attack and then attack. The more power is being put into an attack, the wider its range (like becoming a wider spread cone or a larger beam) and/or the stronger it is. However, this can take up more time and, with how massive and powerful the attack might be, might take up slightly more time to reach its target due to there being a lot of mass having to be moved out of sheer willpower and strength alone (however, moves that focus more on sound or damaging the mind or body with moves that don't exactly manifest in the air, like Psychic or Disarming Voice, tend to be extremely fast. They don't happen immediately, but they can certainly feel like it. Of course, sound-based attacks aren't as fast as the speed of sound, but they can be generally quite quick when moving through the air).

Also, dodging an opponent who is trying to put the pressure on your character won't exactly tire out your character, especially if they aren't trying. However, if the opponent is slightly faster and is successfully putting the pressure on your character, they will lose more energy trying to run and fight than normal, unless they find a way to take a break from the relentless onslaught. And I'm talking about attack after attack. However, characters can only do that for so long, so they will end up losing steam realistically. If this becomes a problem (as in the character is still attacking relentlessly after 10 minutes (when a usual Pokemon battle lasts less than this), even though they should be getting tired), talk it out with the other RPer and figure out what feats and training their character has done that would get them this insane stamina. Make a plan and then go from there.

Which takes me to whether or not planning a fight with your RP partner is better than winging it. Usually winging it is better due to the unorthodox methods being pulled out and the battle being sometimes easier for others to figure out. However, if it isn't planned, then interpretations can be in the air and, if not properly talked about, can end up ruining the "winging it" experience. However, planning a fight, while it might give you a sense of how the opponent fights before getting there in the RP and being able to have permission to auto another character to make your post work, may take longer. I do a healthy mixture of both, but I do vastly prefer planning it out for big battles that are really important and then winging it for quicker, smaller battles.

goodness I went on a rant XD