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You'll wish you had Magic Bounce

Discussion in 'The Doctor's Clinic' started by Ruko, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. Ruko

    Ruko Bearded Trout Warrior

    Friend Code:
    0473-7895-5364
    My first proper Gen V team, that isn't just a mashup of my favorites. I think you'll find yourself extremely frustrated with me if you were to face it unprepared.

    Froslass @ Red Card
    Timid Nature
    Cursed Body
    252 HP, 252 Speed EVs, 4 Sp. Attack
    - Spikes
    - Thunder Wave
    - Shadow Ball
    - Ice Beam / Pain Split / Light Screen


    Rhyperior @ Leftovers
    Impish Nature
    Solid Rock
    252 HP, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Attack
    - Stealth Rock
    - Dragon Tail
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast


    Cloyster @ White Herb/Leftovers
    Impish / Naughty Nature
    Skill Link
    168 HP, 252 Attack, 88 Speed
    - Shell Smash
    - Icicle Spear
    - Rock Blast
    - Razor Shell / Hydro Pump
    [Hydro Pump would go for Naughty and I would transfer the increase in attack over to Sp. Attack EVs]


    Latios @ [Choice Scarf, Custap Berry, not certain]
    Timid Nature
    Levitate
    4 HP, 252 Sp. Attack, 252 Speed
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Trick
    - Memento


    Zoroark @ Custap or Life Orb for power
    Jolly Nature
    Illusion
    252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Memento
    - Roar


    Riolu @ Eviolite
    Jolly Nature
    Prankster
    252 HP, 252 Speed, 4 Def
    - Roar
    - Copycat
    - Substitute
    - Drain Punch, or other filler




    This team can best be split into three pairs:
    Froslass and Rhyperior set up hazards, Rhyperior probably doing so first, being more likely to draw out water type spinners and intimidating what taunting leads still exist. Froslass is an amazing spinblocker in that she can also set up spikes and cripple oncoming attackers in various ways. Rhyperior on the other hand hits like a truck even with no offensive training, and could probably stop said truck without even noticing given the equally powerful bulk he sports.
    Cloyster and Latios are my primary means of spreading death and despair to my weakened opponents. Cloyster is likely to be an anticipated user of Toxic Spikes and possibly rapid spin given the nature of the rest of my team, and I'm hoping to surprise some people not expecting Shell Smash... I don't count on surprising them, but they'll have a harder time deciding what kind of Cloyster it is at first glance to say the least. Latios' Memento really help Riolu get going, while first dishing out some nice damage. Dragon Pulse can also nicely round out a weakened team, given the sacrifice of Latios wasn't necessary earlier.
    Zoroark and Riolu Go hand in hand, Zoroark's primary, specialized purpose being the dispatch of Xatu and Espeon. Riolu's purpose is to get off one roar successfully and then spam Copycat for priority Roars until it runs out of PP. Substitute on Riolu can be used in the face of an expected status-inflicting attack on the turn I would roar, or to safeguard it from being foiled by a sucker punch [which, while it will fail, will subsequently cause my Copycat to not be a roar, breaking the process]


    Overall, I feel this team has a lot of synergy, and I intend to play around with Zoroark a bit. Right now his use is heavily limited, but I'm using it such a way that it [may] both lure and counter Riolu's biggest threats. The exact mindset for using it I have is:
    Say Xatu or Espeon are already out. I send out Zoroark who appears as Riolu, My opponent will then [assuming they saw team preview] know that I'm either risking a bluff, or they're risking their likely only perfect counter to what might not be Riolu.

    I can then do one of a few things:
    I can Sucker Punch, knowing Zoroark might get statused.. but if they used their STAB, I would be entirely safe even if Sucker Punch didn't score a KO.
    I can Roar, and they will use their STAB to no effect while I roar myself into a switch, throwing the cards back up into the air as to whether or not I send out the real Riolu again later.
    I can Roar while they predict I've sent out Zoroark, and switch away to something that can destroy it... then send their counter back in to be Sucker Punched and Pursuited [Or I can take the opportunity to send the real Riolu in when they switch back, just to mindf*ck them]
    I can Pursuit when I'm certain they will switch, and leave a heavy mark on their counter to be finished off later, possibly even by entry hazards

    Of those three options, Roar is the safest by far, for testing the water. Sucker Punch nets up as next safest, though it leaves me vulnerable to Priority, and Pursuit I feel I wouldn't really use except immediately after a Sucker Punch... I may later replace it with Low Sweep or some other coverage move to break away from Zoroark's specialization a bit.

    Ultimately when all else fails, my illusion is up and I'm left with a hurting Zoroark, I can memento either for the real Riolu, or Cloyster to have their fun setting up.

    I feel like I just wrote an entry for the Death Note storyline ~:?~

    Riolu's speed investment is worth noting because it will outspeed the most common users of priority attacks how it is set up, namely Scizor and Adamant Breloom

    Cloyster was the last slot in my team I filled, and I had mulled over some other options to go alongside Latios to fill in the damaging aspects of my team. Probopass to trap and finish steel types, and Gyarados just for general Synergy with Latios as well as intimidate.

    My team is ready to have holes poked through it now :)


    [EDIT]

    Alright, so after some testing around, I've determined the following things about each team member:
    Froslass has been practically nothing but dead weight; I rarely get the chance to set up spikes, or even more than a thunder wave and I've encountered a whole 1 spinner to block with her... which was the only battle in about 12 that I got off more than one set of spikes. Cursed body has activated in numerous key times, however. One such time would be disabling an opposing Shell Smash cloyster's rock blast allowing my own to set up on the paralyzed va-shellfish.
    Overall, I think Froslass is either due for a replacement, or a redo on the EVs at the least. There are a number of other pokemon that can hold a red card and set-up spikes.
    Rhyperior remains to be my favorite user of Stealth rock for two reasons - In the face of something with taunt, they usually don't taunt for fear of being immediately obliterated. And second, absolutely NOTHING can KO it in one hit, my most noteworthy examples being the survival of a vaporeon scald and a Life Orb Breloom's Seed Bomb [The only reason these hit were misprediction on my part, I'm not -that- suicidal, but both were successfully dragon tailed away]
    Latios Has been a little less useful than I at first thought, but still functions well enough to be worth keeping. I'd decided to stick with trick + choice scarf because including this on the set allows me to disable offensive and defensive pokemon alike. I typically send Latios out against a defensive pokemon, trick immediately, then proceed to attack until it either is KO'd or switches. Surprisingly working in my favor, many players send something out to scare and pursuit Latios [Scizor and Tyranitar, I'm looking at you] and instead of getting a successful pursuit off, they get a memento and become the perfect target for Riolu to begin.
    Cloyster has been nothing short of incredible. After a couple tries of pure physical, I opted to go Naughty with Hydro Pump and have only failed to sweep once since that switch. Having a second user of memento as well as a white herb has always ensured Cloyster a safe and full-health [bar stealth rock] start to the sweep, closing the doors off to anyone hoping to pick me out with priority.
    Zoroark sits in the same boat as Froslass... sort of. I knew when I combined Sucker Punch with Pursuit, his uses would be limited.. . and he surpassed what I expected, but not by too much. Sucker punch really lives up to its name with Zoroark, and stings like many players aren't ready for. Pursuit I've yet to successfully use... that is to say, use it on a switching pokemon. Both times it felt appropriate, it KO'd my target, but not on a switch. Roar has helped me further bluff that Zoro really is Riolu, but only once as most players opt to attack on sight. I really feel that substitute might go better in that slot, especially if I can keep the illusion of Zoro with a sub taking damage.
    Riolu, like Cloyster, soared above and beyond what I ever thought it could do. 32 roars into a team, even with only stealth rock up, usually leaves at least half of the team KO'd, and I only failed to use Riolu to its full usefulness once [thanks to support with getting rid of magic bounce, courtesy Zoroark and Froslass combined]. Drain punch has also worked very surprisingly in my favor, particularly when I have a substitute up. I've been able to KO, and fully heal off of both Tyranitar and Blissey at key times when either Toxic Spikes or sandstorm [Hail even, once] had been wearing Riolu down into critical levels. Then with a sub still up, I get another roar off and resume my chaos.


    With all of that shared, Resume tearing my team apart with criticism!
    Oh and for a win/loss record, I've won about 60-70% of my matches.
     
  2. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    I've noticed that prevention tends to be the best cure regarding entry hazards this generation, so Rapid Spin is by extension a bit less common than expected, especially since Excadrill got booted upstairs early in Gen V's lifetime.

    I'd either swap Froslass for a bulkier Ghost-type or something that can set up more hazards for you. Roserade can lay down Spikes and Toxic Spikes to make Riolu even more painful, for example, while Jellicent resists/is immune to the vast majority of the priority moves that people would aim at Riolu (Bullet Punch, ExtremeSpeed, Mach Punch, Aqua Jet, Ice Shard etc.)
     
  3. Ruko

    Ruko Bearded Trout Warrior

    Friend Code:
    0473-7895-5364
    I think I'll probably try Roserade first, Sleep support feels like a decent enough replacement for my missing Thunder Wave with froslass gone.

    Coincidentally, Jelli resisting priority attacks has brought up the question: Why are there no electric priority moves? Lightning is the fastest thing in the game! :p
     

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