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Wishes It Was Competitive [HGSS]

Discussion in 'The Doctor's Clinic' started by Wobbegong, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. A couple days of beating my head against a wall later, I'm tossing a draft up here for critique. Poke away at the (no doubt gaping) holes!

    Parameters:
    -the Cradily stays. No exceptions.
    -adheres to the 'Charms Standard Battling rules.
    -if possible, adheres to 'Charms Alternate Battling rules (barring a little item shuffling).
    -ideally has no legendaries, as I can't hack 'em and resetting til I get one with a decent nature (let alone IVs) would make me want to claw my eyes out.


    Hippowdon @ Item?
    Impish (+Def, -SpA)
    Sand Stream
    252 HP, 152 Def, 104 SpD
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Slack Off
    - Ice Fang
    "Cradily does great in a sandstorm," I says to myself. "So I should make this a Sandstorm team, then?" I'm still not sold on it, but I'd like to try out a Hippo and heeeey Stealth Rocks. Woohoo. In any event, fairly sturdy but has more attacking options than just glaring menacingly at stuff. Fourth moveslot dedicated to Ice Fang to do something about some Dragons and other ice-susceptible things.

    Cradily @ Item?
    Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
    Suction Cups
    252 HP, 252 SpD, 4 Def
    - Curse
    - Recover
    - Seed Bomb
    - Rock Slide
    Star of the show-- I want to beat someone's face in with a Cradily. I don't know if I have the patience to play a proper Stalldily, so I'm eyeballing a more offensive version. Crippling terror of fighting and steel types (among others) means Cradily stays off the field until I've gotten what I can out of the way. After that, set up and beat faces in.

    Clefable @ Toxic Orb
    Nature?
    Magic Guard
    252 HP, EVs?
    - Heal Bell/Aromatherapy
    - Safeguard
    - Trick
    - Facade
    In short: cleric. If my wall-y things had Rest, I don't think I'd need one, but I hate Rest so they don't and I do. Trying to decide whether Heal Bell or Safeguard would be better; giving a wall four safe turns to set up for a sweep versus fixing everyone after the fact, pretty much. Why the Toxic Orb wickedness? Because I want to do something evil and abusive with a Clefable. Or I could give up on that and Wish-pass to the only guy who might need it...

    Spiritomb @ Leftovers
    Adamant
    Pressure
    252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Shadow Sneak
    You'll notice a glaring weakness to Fighting in 2 of the 3 above pokemon. Spiritomb exists to screw them and some psychics over. No, I don't know what I'm doing with this guy, thanks for asking. D:

    Gliscor @ Item?
    Jolly
    Sand Veil
    252 HP, 252 Spe, 4 Def
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - Aerial Ace
    - Earthquake
    The other half of the "I hate Fighting types" team. Breaks walls and makes them cry, while hitting a variety of things in the face. Use completely contingent on this being a Sandstorm team-- doubt I'd bother otherwise, as much as I like it.

    Magnezone @ Item?
    Timid
    Magnet Pull
    252 SpA, 216 Spe, 40 HP
    - Thunderbolt
    - ???
    - Substitute
    - Magnet Rise
    It... kills steel types and Gyarados? I can't even tell at this point.


    It's worth noting I was considering an Empoleon of some sort instead of a Magnezone. Gyarados scares me, though.

    Please weigh in and put me out of my misery. I think there's a good team buried under this rubble... somewhere... if only I could find it.
     
  2. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    I don't know why you'd expect people to argue against Cradily being in your team since the thing is a rape machine (literally) but anyway...

    - Hippowdon's all good, not really a whole lot to say beyond that really. Leftovers, or Passho Berry/Rindo Berry are the best items (if Item Clause stops you from using Lefties on this guy, use one of the berries.) Muscle Band can work too if you want to do a bit more damage with attacks, and Shell Bell is a...passable (at best) option as well. Leftovers is the best item though if you can use that.

    - Cradily will definitely want Leftovers here if he's running Curse. One thing you'll want to look out for here is Toxic, since without Rest it'll ruin your setup and ultimately ruin Cradily period if your opponent has KO'd Clefable beforehand - I'd try and wear your opponent down and scout their team before attempting to set up. I wouldn't expect the Curse set to "beat faces in" too quickly either, since Cradily's Attack is mediocre at best - it'll probably just be down to outdamaging the opponent and using Recover when needed. Earthquake and Stone Edge (it'll be better than Rock Slide on Cradily since it's slow and needs the extra power really) would be the best attacks here, since any other combination gets Cradily walled quite badly (Grass + Ground gets walled by Flying, Grass + Rock is walled by Steel.)

    - Clefable would probably want to use Flame Orb for Tricking opponents since Burn status is generally more crippling than Toxic status is. Safeguard is very pointless with Heal Bell/Aromatherapy on the set - Wish is by far the best option if you want Clefable to act as a Cleric (I think Aromatherapy + Wish is illegal, but Heal Bell + Wish is fine.) Facade can work, but Clefable is probably better off sticking something random there to beat down something your team is vulnerable to. Good options to use would be Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Grass Knot or Shadow Ball. I'd say Calm + 252 SP.DEF EVs works best for Clefable combined with your HP training, since full-Defense training doesn't really stop Clefable being face-raped by Close Combat, whereas you only have to worry about the rare Aura Sphere and Focus Blast attacks on the special side of things, making Clefable more suited (like the majority of Normal-types) to taking Special attacks as opposed to physical ones...and now, thanks to your Flame Orb, you can cripple physical sweepers anyway, meaning you won't need the training in Defense.

    - Since Clefable now has a Flame Orb to play with, Spiritomb doesn't really need Will-O-Wisp (note that Clefable can take the Orb back with Trick the turn after giving it to the opponent to burn them) and can instead inflict a status that'd probably aid your team more: Sleep. Hypnosis may have horrid accuracy, but it can put your opponent in a rough spot even if it misses them, especially if they've got something out against you that they really don't want to risk being put to sleep. Hypnosis + Pursuit should create some good fun for you if you can predict right...not much more to say beyond that really, Spiritomb's good.

    - We're really shuffling your status moves around now...because Gliscor's getting Toxic over Aerial Ace. You said you wanted Gliscor to break walls, and what better move to help your set than Toxic? I'd like to fit U-Turn on here somewhere, and it'd probably have to go in place of Earthquake if anything, but it isn't mandatory by any stretch of the imagination and Earthquake can do just fine. Since Spiritomb and Cradily have your Leftovers, Yache Berry will be Gliscor's best option, in case a Blissey or Cresselia comes along to try and Ice Beam you (Blissey sometimes has Ice Beam, Cresselia almost always has it.)

    - Modest nature will probably be better than Timid on Magnezone since Timid barely increases Magnezone's poor Speed anyway, whereas Modest will cause its Sp.Attack to increase surprisingly sharply (remember, it's a percentage increase, so a higher stat will get a higher increase.) Magnezone really needs Hidden Power to work to his full potential - Fire will knock down Scizor, a Pokemon that'd present quite a dangerous threat to Cradily otherwise (Choice Banded Scizor can be simply mowed down with Thunderbolt if you trap-lock them into Bullet Punch or Pursuit, but non-Choice Scizor will KO Magnezone if given a free turn to do so, making HP Fire handy,) Grass will get any Ground-types such as Swampert and Rhyperior out of your way, and Ice works nicely as well since it combines very well with STAB Electric. If you can't get a good Hidden Power (it is hard to do) then Flash Cannon will do OK. Substitute doesn't strike me as the most useful move in the world for Maggy since status doesn't really threaten it very much, and most of the time you'll be switching Magnezone in on Steel-types who couldn't switch out even if they wanted to, and Substitute is best used to punish switches - defeats the purpose a bit. Magnet Rise is pretty much mandatory, since it lets Magnezone wall foes like Bronzong and Forretress to hell and back, whilst trapping and battering both adversaries with Thunderbolts, so definitely keep that, and the third move is a bit filler really - Metal Sound and Explosion can slap any special walls right in the face, Mirror Coat makes for a nice "lolpwnt" move if you can pull it off and Reflect/Light Screen are potential options as well - take your pick. Shuca Berry, Occa Berry, Wise Glasses or (if you choose Reflect/Light Screen for your third moveslot) Light Clay are your best choices for items.

    Overall, you've actually done a far better job thus far than you probably expected - everything is pretty good. Note that Magnezone isn't a sure-fire way to deal with Gyarados though, since it's faster than you and carries Earthquake very often (Dragon Dance doesn't help these matters much either.) Very nice team you have here though.

    ...and that's the first time I've heard someone mention the alternate ruleset in quite a long time actually - I wonder why?
     
  3. Alright, after contemplating suggested edits and trying to feel out where I'm going with this dang team: draft 2! Revisions are bolded for your convenience.


    Hippowdon @ anti-berry/shell bell?
    Haven't decided which is less awful. No changes otherwise.

    Cradily @ Leftovers
    Lefties for the 'dily! Having sat down with a type comparison chart, I'm sticking to Seed Bomb (someone else can deal with STL types) and Rock Slide (less than 90% accuracy makes me writhe in agony). If anything, now I'm thinking about whether a Stalldily is the way to go. Ugh.

    Clefable @ Toxic Orb
    Calm
    Magic Guard
    252 HP, 252 SpD, 4 Def
    - Heal Bell/Aromatherapy
    - Wish
    - Thunder Wave
    - Flamethrower?
    Still dithering madly over what direction I want to go here, besides the direct clericing. Tentatively, paralysis assistance would be pretty nice (slow team goes slow) and if anyone was jerk enough to Trick my orb off they're probably not going to care about the Atk loss of a burn. At least that's as far as I managed to think it through before the indecision had me rolling on the floor. Definitely aiming for something more defensive, at least!

    Spiritomb
    No changes. Or, rather, depending on what my Clefable ends up doing this guy could get completely juggled around. Stay tuned to find out how badly I have to redo this guy next draft!

    Gliscor @ Yache Berry/Brightpowder
    Dodge-haxx are the only haxx I enjoy. Otherwise remains unchanged: I should have clarified that this isn't a full wall breaker, but rather Taunt-Roost stalls things that can't get it down fast enough. Benefits greatly from status conditions, yes, but dropping Aerial Ace means I can't facepunch a couple of the bigger (bulkier, scarier) things that I really really really want to facepunch.

    Magnezone: I sat and stared and pondered and finally screamed and pulled my hair out. It doesn't have enough non-Hidden Power attack move types for me to want to use it. Also I have done HP breeding once and... no. Just no. So I tried to figure out if I can jam an Empoleon in here instead.
    Empoleon @ Wise Glasses?
    Calm
    252 HP, 160 Def, 92 SpD, 4 Spe
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Grass Knot/Flash Cannon
    - Yawn/Knock Off

    If I did this, Hippowdon would get Roar instead of Ice Fang; Yawn if Clefable gets Trick, Knock Off if it doesn't. This is Defensive Penguin; the alternative would basically trade out the annoyance move for Substitute and reorder EVs/nature to be more slap-happy.


    THOUGHTS: I'm thinking I want this to be a bulky team (duh) but not flat-out wall/stall. There's plenty of glory in blocking like the Great Wall of China, but it's a pain to raise and I doubt I'd have the patience to play it, either. I love hitting like a truck too much. :| This ends up being the first draft where I consider status effects to be something besides incidental.

    I wish there was more forward progression between drafts (instead of dithering in sideways circles) but frankly I can't mentally juggle enough. Gah. Alright, tear it up, and a thousand thank-yous for logical walk-throughs of why to do stuff, not just "do this."
     

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