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Toxic, Sandstorm, Stealth Rock

Discussion in 'The Doctor's Clinic' started by Naturematthe, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. Hello,

    before anyone asks: This team is designed for 4th Generation OU with Garchomp and Salamence not being Uber and Garchomp not being banned in combination with a Sand Stream pokémon. Item Clause also is not activated.

    Item: Focus Sash
    Nature: Sassy (+SDef -Speed)
    252 HP - 6 Def - 252 SDef - 0 Speed IVs
    Ability: Sand Stream
    ~Stealth Rock

    Hippowdon's main function is starting a sandstorm. It can be sent into battle multiple times thanks to its high HP and good defenses, so it does not need to stay in if it has an opponent that will stop Hippowdon from using Stealth Rock. Yawn can either force the opponent to switch or put it to sleep, so Hippowdon can use Stealth Rock somewhen. Toxic is the third part of "TSS".
    Minimum Speed helps Hippowdon starting the sandstorm, as it will always go after an opposing Abomasnow. Minimum Speed Snover still is slower, but who will use it, honestly?

    Item: Leftovers
    Nature: Relaxed (+Def -Speed)
    252 HP - 252 Def - 6 SDef - 0 Speed IVs
    Ability: Sturdy

    Minimum Speed, as Shuckle won't outspeed anything even with a neutral nature and 31 IVs, and 13 Speed at Level 100 just is more epic than 46.
    Toxic is Shuckle's primary form of dealing damage, as its offensive stats are useless. Wrap will deal damage to Poison-type pokémon and increase the damage to poisoned pokémon. Rest helps Shuckle keeping alive and can become quite frustrating. 244 HP, 614 Defense, 497 Special Defense (or 745 in sandstorm) - try to break through that.
    Encore helps against stat boosters that try to abuse Shuckle for setting up. It's totally shut down by Taunt, but it does not need to stay in then.

    Support and Water Absorber
    Item: Leftovers
    Nature: Bold (+Def -Atk)
    252 HP - 224 Def - 32 SDef
    Ability: Water Absorb
    ~Hidden Power Electric

    Vaporeon helps my team by supporting it and taking opposing Water- and Ice-type attacks that can become a threat for my team. Water Absorb helps Vaporeon switching into Water-type attacks, and Ice Beam won't really hurt it either. Hidden Power Electric removes pokémon like Gyarados, who could try to set up Dragon Dances, while Surf takes care of Ground-type pokémon and Infernape.
    Toxic is the last move here, but I'm thinking about replacing it with Protect. Wish supports my other pokémon that are not able to heal themselves.

    Booster and Sweeper
    Item: Life Orb
    Nature: Jolly
    6 HP - 252 Atk - 252 Speed
    Ability: Sand Stream
    ~Dragon Dance
    ~Stone Edge
    ~Ice Punch

    If the sandstorm has stopped by any reason, Tyranitar will bring it back as soon as it comes into battle. After a Dragon Dance, it will outspeed every pokémon with a Speed base of 115 with a positive nature as well as every pokémon with a Speed base of 130 and a neutral nature.
    Life Orb increases the damage Tyranitar deals, Stone Edge is its STAB move, Earthquake gives excellent coverage and Ice Punch hits pokémon that resist both Earthquake and Stone Edge, i.e. Torterra, Flygon and Breloom. It still does not hurt Bronzong...

    Item: Choice Scarf
    Nature: Naive
    252 Atk - 16 SAtk - 240 Speed
    Ability: Sand Veil
    ~Fire Blast
    ~Dragon Claw

    With the given EVs, Garchomp will always outspeed Jolly Salamence and Flygon with +1 Speed Boost, namely Choice Scarf or Dragon Dance.
    Outrage is for pure power and will deal heavy damage to most opponents, while Earthquake hits Steel-type pokémon for super effective damage. Fire Blast hits Skarmory and Bronzong, and Dragon Claw prevents Garchomp from running into a Steel-type pokémon without being able to switch out.

    Endgame Sweeper
    Item: Life Orb
    Nature: Adamant
    6 HP - 252 Atk - 252 Speed
    Ability: Inner Focus
    ~Swords Dance
    ~Close Combat
    ~Bullet Punch

    After one Swords Dance (or two), Lucario can easily defeat weakened opponents by using priority moves. ExtremeSpeed is the main attack, while Bullet Punch hits Ghost-type pokémon like Gengar. Close Combat hits Steel-type pokémon that resist both Bullet Punch and ExtremeSpeed.
    The only pokémon being resistant to all three moves are Rotom and Shedinja.

    So far for now.

    -Which pokémon could replace Garchomp for battles with Garchomb ban?
    -Which pokémon could be replaced for fifth generation?

    Mfg, Naturematthe
  2. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    First off, I don't know who the hell you'll find that'll do Gen IV with Garchomp allowed, bar yourself of course. Don't expect to find many opponents unless you make the jump to Gen V.

    Luckily for you, sandstorm is a lot more dangerous in Gen V than it was in Gen IV, so there will be only good things in store if you give this team you have here a Gen V upgrade.

    Now then...

    - Hippowdon does not need a Focus Sash. It's painfully obvious what has the power to OHKO him and what doesn't, and if he finds himself facing a threat that can mow him down in one then he can simply switch out satisfied that he's at least gotten the sandstorm up. As for your "TSS" moveset, it's almost completely wrong. Yawn will become useless in a hurry once Toxic starts spreading around the opponent's team, and you don't even have a healing move to aid the stall strategy. Drop either SR or EQ (give someone else SR if you choose to drop that) for Slack Off and Yawn for Roar, and then give him Leftovers as his item.

    - Shuckle isn't really doing anything here that your Hippowdon isn't doing already besides having Encore, which is nice but at the same time not really worth wasting an entire team slot for in this case. I'd swap him out for something else such as Gliscor, Skarmory, or Ferrothorn perhaps. I'll leave the choice to you.

    - Again, Vaporeon really doesn't need Toxic if Hippowdon is going to be spreading it across your opponent's team by himself anyway. What it does need is Protect to combine with Wish, allowing you to prevent yourself from being damaged during Wish's one-turn delay. I would suggest using Scald over Surf, but Hippowdon may end up spreading Toxic too quickly for Scald's burn to get a look in. Testing in battle is the only thing I can suggest there.

    - Tyranitar doesn't really need to be sweeping here when he's got Lucario doing it, especially since his set-up sweeping ability is outstripped by the new guys by a fair margin nowadays. Tyranitar's overall power and utility are still extremely impressive in this generation mind you, and he can do a great deal for you regardless. Also, almost no Pokemon with Base 130 speed will use a nature that doesn't boost that speed further. Tyranitar also gets Dragon Tail in Gen V.

    - Be VERY careful of Air Balloon Excadrill when using Scarf Garchomp. If the thing comes in on any move that isn't Fire Blast, it'll set up in your face and start sweeping. Garchomp's fantastic at using Choice Scarf otherwise, but overall the Swords Dance/Substitute-or-3-attacks set(s) are much safer to use.

    - Speaking of Excadrill, he's the perfect Gen V pick for your team. Sand Rush doubles his already decent Base 88 speed, making him faster than even most Choice Scarf users when in the sandstorm. Swords Dance combined with Base 135 Attack is absolutely brutal once it starts doing damage, and Excadrill's good HP and very nice defensive typing allow it to get a setup done fairly easily in the right conditions. Only a few things can stop Excadrill once it begins to cause damage, and only Garchomp really matches it in offensive capability.

    Overall, your team is good, but certain Pokemon don't seem to have their roles fully worked out yet, namely Tyranitar and whoever will end up taking Shuckle's spot. As for strategy, you'll need to work out how to beat the other weather teams, namely the ones carrying Drizzle Politoed and Drought Ninetales, the former especially since most of your team is weak to Water, and if Vaporeon dies early (most rain teams use Thundurus, so they can kill Vaporeon early) you'll be in for a world of hurt. You're doing well so far mind.
  3. First of nall, thank you for your comment. In one tournament I'm taking part in, Garchomp isn't banned, and neither is it in several tierlists like Bisafans.de, although here it's illegal together with a Sand Steam pokémon.

    Shuckle got its part in the team because I just love it. ;D But I know that it can't do anything besides... yes, poison the enemy and wait until it dies - either Shuckle or the opponent. However, I think I will keep it in my team, at least as long it's played in Gen 4, because I just love it. ;D

    Hippowdon will be changed, although I think I will keep SR as well as EQ and replace Yawn for Roar. I also might replace Focus Sash with Leftovers or so.

    Vaporeon Protect>Toxic.

    What set would be a good one for TTar? I thought about a mixed set, as I don't have a special sweeper in my team besides Vaporeon, which is not meant for sweeping.

    Chomp might be replaced by Excadrill for Gen 5, although I still don't have a good idea for a substitute (no, not the attack) in Gen 4 with Chomp ban... probably Scarf Flygon, as it's immune to Sandstorm? Or Scarf Salamence for its better Attack and Special Attack?

    As soon as I start planning for the second part of that tournament - which will be Gen 1 to 5 then - I will test out several new pokémon, i.e. Landrus (hope I typed it correctly?) and (of course) Excadrill.
    #3 Naturematthe, Jul 31, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2013

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