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The 8th Pokemon Movie is the best Pokemon Movie

Discussion in 'Pokémon Chat' started by Doctor Oak, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. Doctor Oak

    Staff Member Overlord


    Basically, I recently watched one of the 14th movies, and boy was it rubbish. I've been thinking since then about just how rubbish most of the Pokemon movies are. The first three do rank very highly, albeit with issues that may not gloss over so easily without nostalgia butting its nose in.

    The 8th movie however? It was just genuinely a brilliant movie. It stands alone in being able to evoke some genuine emotion while having a LOT of great action in it at the same time. There's some great humour in it, and the soundtrack is quite simply amazing.

    Everything since then has been an up and down attempt to make something better, but always failing. The 9th movie was as boring and dire as the 4th, 6th and 7th; the 10th was alright but daft; the 11th at the very least had a real antagonist but didn't really make any sense and the 12th and 13th just had very dull stories that let down their starring Pokemon.

    The 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th are all superior in almost every way to all the other movies - except the 8th.

    You may now attempt to disprove this assertion, or prove it by agreeing.
  2. I think the problem is after 15 Pokemon movies they all start to feel too similar to one another. Another thing is they focus on the huge battles instead of character moments.

    I like the first 3 movies a lot, but I wonder if that's just because of nostalgia. The 8th movie is one of my favorites.

    Another problem is Ash being the star of every movie kills the variety. Why did Misty and Brock never get a big role in a movie? Instead the writers have them stand in the background doing nothing. Admittedly they did try to give May, Max and to a lesser extent Dawn sizable movie roles but in the end Ash just stole the spotlight anyway.

    I guess in Japan they are so obsessed with Ash an Pikachu that they can be the only ones to save the day while Ash's friends do absolutely nothing.
  3. Demelza

    Demelza Eevee Tamer
    Staff Member Moderator

    I agree.

    I outright hated the third generation movies apart from Lucario & The Mystery of Mew, to me they were trying to shake things up by giving May, Max and Brock more attention, but that's never really worked as everyone wants to see Ash as the hero, and that's what the 8th movie did, it gave us back Ash as the hero and the star of the show. Helps that the plot was written very, very well and that you could always feel for Lucario, unlike some of the newer talking stars of the Pokemon movies.

    I did enjoy the 10th and 11th movies, but not enough. I write 12th off completely for letting down what could have been such a great plot and ending to the last two movies, it built something up and didn't finish if off well enough.

    The Victini movies have failed to kick off a fresh start with the fifth generation, they didn't even really have a plot when you look at it. Half of the stuff felt like they'd just thrown it in without really thinking about it, and while focusing on the friendship between Ash and Victini was a key point, they left Iris and Cilan without any key role at all, like the plot they felt thrown in for the sake of it.

    In short: The movies have gone downhill since the 8th, hopefully they pick back up again with the 15th.
  4. Well you also have to take into account that the movies are just to advertise the newest legendary pokemon and they've always been that way. The writers aren't intending to make the movies stand out among other animated movies.

    Likewise I maintain my view that the movies would be a lot better, or more unique, if Ash wasn't the star of every movie. Sure he would have a big role in all no doubt, but that fact is every movie starts to feel the same when you know his travel companions are not going to really do anything and Ash will save the day yet again.

    They even had Dawn as an almost equal hero helping to save the day in the Darkrai movie, but sadly her role was diminished greatly as DP progressed. By the time we got to the last DP movie, Dawn was shoved completely in the background.

    Although I find it incredibly amusing to this day that Movie 9 felt like it would have been Misty's dream pokemon movie. C'mon, a movie all about water pokemon, with a water legendary that's the "prince of the sea" and a Sea temple? Its obvious why she wasn't in the movie, but its kinda funny how much Movie 9 felt very much geared toward Misty's character, and I remember people bringing it up when it first came out. It really doesn't matter to me though.

    I hope Iris or Cilan get some type of role in the upcoming BW movies, although I am not holding my breath.
  5. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    Sadly, this is pretty much the case. Considering what a boring mess movie 14 ended up being... twice... it's obvious that they didn't try very hard when writing that plot. And if they did try, they need to get new writers. Seriously. It's pretty bad when a random 24 minute episode of the TV series outshines the hour and a half movie ten fold.

    However, unlike most of the others, movie 8 doesn't feel like an hour and a half long advert. When compared to other animated movies - Japanese or otherwise - it's genuinely a good animated movie. You still need to be somewhat of a Pokemon fan to fully enjoy it, but it has all of the necessary elements to make it great. Self-contained character development in the form of Lucario, an interesting and unique plot that spans two time periods and does it right, a gorgeous and memorable soundtrack, incredible visuals, and a good amount of action.

    Even the Team Rocket trio had a clear purpose in movie 8, something that hasn't been true since... movie 3? They saved Ash's life so I guess that counts. (And they had awesome one liners)

    I've shown movie 8 to a friend who's an oldschool Pokemon fan and typically can't stand the Anime series, and even she adored it. But my bottom line is this: movie 8 is undeniably the best of the Pokemon movies, and how Alex ranked the others is exactly how I would.

    Couldn't agree more. All that's missing is a cat picture to emphasize how much I couldn't agree more.
  6. I actually haven't seen Movie 14 yet. Was it really that bad?

    Granted I didn't think the other movies were that bad. The Deoxys movie was actually good until that last 15 minutes when those block robots attacked. I also liked the Darkrai movie.
  7. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    I actually consider movie 7 one of the most boring, which is a shame because I find Deoxys very interesting. Poor dear just wanted to find its friend. ~;;~

    Overall I like all of the movies to some degree, but there's just no denying which are of higher quality and which fall short for numerous reasons.
  8. I liked Movie 3 a lot because of the Molly/Entei story. But most of all, Misty and Brock actually *do* something. Both Misty and Brock battle Molly and it was nice to see them take part in the action.

    It always baffled me that the writers seemingly shoved Misty/Brock into the background for their entire run. Its like any time they actually battled or took center stage it felt like something shocking.

    Sadly Brock does absolutely nothing for the rest of the movies. In DP, I think in Movie 11, he even comments how he is always left behind or something like that.
  9. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    Contrary to what my name would suggest, I've yet to see Movie 8. This probably won't change anytime soon, if ever.

    The only movies I've watched (or attempted to watch) were 1, 10, 11 and 12. 1 was what it was, I loved it back then but honestly now, it'd just be the nostalgia that it has going for it. Movie 10 was poor and had little to offer beyond Dialga and Palkia beating each other up, Movie 11 took far too long to go anywhere and I was bored of it about halfway through, and Movie 12 was mediocre at best, especially since Arceus (who might I remind you is the GOD OF POKEMON) is shown being almost killed by having molten silver being poured onto it. I thought the idea of a god was that it was meant to be immortal?

    Honestly, I don't like the anime anyway, and the movies all seem to follow the exact same formula anyway and have done for almost a decade now, so one movie standing out as being the best of the bunch means little to me when they're all clones of each other anyway.
  10. Doctor Oak

    Staff Member Overlord

    I think the biggest point here, really, is that the 8th really isn't a clone of any of the others.

    There are three basic set patterns in the Pokemon movies, most of which mix and match elements with eachother:

    1) The (just misunderstood, not really evil) antagonist endangers one or more Pokemon (which may or may not include Pikachu) and/or an entire area/the world and Ash and friends have to fight with the power of the heart of the cards Pokemon to beat them. See: Movies 1, 2, 3, 4 (also formula 2), 5, 6 (which also uses formula 2), 7 (in which Deoxys is initially the bad guy, immediately followed by Rayquaza), 11 (again, also featuring formula 2), 12, 13 (again, featuring formula 2), 14 (also featuring formula 2 in the shape of Victini).

    2) Ash and friends encounter a cute little (usually legendary) Pokemon that needs to get somewhere, but for one reason or another can't do it alone. See: Movies 4, 6, 9, 11, 13, 14.

    3) Ash and friends get caught in the middle of an apocalyptic battle between fierce Legendary Pokemon for whatever reason and has to stop them before they destroy everything around them. See: Movies 1, 2, 7, 10, 11, 12, 14.

    Of all the movies, only three do not fall neatly into these categories - and that's undoubtedly a large reason in why I'd rank them as the top three movies.

    The fifth movie has Team Rocket as antagonists (just not the Team Rocket we'd expect) and is, in many ways, a direct sequel to the second movie. Annie and Oakley even reference the traps used against Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres in using them against Latios and Latias. This movie doesn't feature duelling legendaries (far from it, they're brother and sister here), it doesn't feature a cute little Pokemon the group has to escort and the villains are real villains who do genuinely bad things with no redemption. The dub does a bit of a hatchet job on the true meaning of the movie, but it's nonetheless an enjoyable film with lots of great touching moments and lots of great action. I'd rank this as my third favourite movie. (The 2nd movie would be 4th, the first would be 5th).

    The third movie, in which the story is much less grand in scale and much richer in terms of emotion (the antagonist is just a little girl who wants her parents back), but still features plenty of action and thus manages to be a charming story while at the same time not being boring as hell. More to the point, at some point someone actually realised that the biggest part of Pokemon were the battles, and we had actual (albeit hax'd) battles for once. I'd rank this as my second favourite movie.

    The 8th movie, however, features none of the above scenarios. There's no misguided antagonist, there's no cute little Pokemon to escort (though admittedly, the majority of the movie is taken up by either journeying with Lucario to the World's Tree, or Mew's cuteness with Meowth and Pikachu), and there are no duelling legendaries. The story is endearing and emotional, and you can't help but feel for Lucario. It doesn't fit neatly into any of the categories for a 'Pokemon movie', and as a result stands out as being a great animated film overall. I think Katie's point could be elaborated on even further to say that you could watch and love this film without any prior knowledge of Pokemon at all. It would help, but it's a complete package as it is.

    I guarantee that for whatever reasons you don't watch the anime, or the movies, the 8th is the antithesis of all of those. Well, unless it's the basic fundamentals of the premise, in which case, there's no helping you. :p
  11. The Pokemon movies I'd seen (from beginning to end, at least) are the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 10th, 11th, and 12th. I thought they were all okay (except the 5th, which I thought was pretty good). At the very least, I don't regret watching them.

    I'd first watched the 1st and 2nd ages ago, and I hadn't gotten them on DVD, so I haven't seen them since for quite a while.

    For the first, while I do agree with the Nostalgia Critic's review in that it's not very newbie-friendly (as in, it expects us to know what "Pokemon" means from the get-go), an anti-violence message isn't exactly convincing coming from Pokemon, it pulled a happy ending out of the deepest and darkest part of its ass, and that it had quite a few stupid moments (not the least of which was when Ash tried to PERSONALLY fight Mewtwo), I thought the action was pretty good, and at least Mewtwo wasn't underpowered (as opposed to say, Arceus, in movie 12).

    I really have nothing but nostalgia going for me for the 2nd movie, so there's really not a whole lot I can say there, though I did enjoy it back then, moreso than the 1st, and I'll probably still like it today, if I see it again.

    While I thought the 4th movie spent a lot of its time spinning its wheels, and, once again, it pulled a happy ending at the last possible minute, it did do some things right. The action, when it finally got around it it, was alright, and the twist at the end was pretty clever (and it was foreshadowed subtly enough).

    Doctor Oak already said a lot of the stuff I could say for the 5th movie, so all I'll say for this one is that it's by far my favorite out of the movies I'd seen (and seeing as he rated it so high among the movies he'd seen, it seems we're of similar minds on the movies' quality, and now, I really want to see movies 3 and 8). Also, this one actually knew that it's okay to have a bittersweet ending and the Venice-inspired visuals were stunning.

    The 10th movie wasn't bad, even though the entire first half was pretty much plot exposition, and the fact that "Oracion" is able to calm down absolutely any Pokemon kinda cheapens them on an individual level. At least Gallade was in it (as a background detail, but whatever. He's awesome just being there) and it focused more on Palkia's spacial powers than Dialga's time powers, which I like, because I find that one to be the more interesting of the two.

    While I didn't think the 11th movie was horrible by any stretch of the imagination (it's official: I try to look on the bright side), it's definitely my least favorite. It took too long to go anywhere interesting, and it didn't help that I absolutely hated Shaymin's personality. At least Ash didn't like the thing's personality either, but, of course, Dawn didn't notice, just because it's cute. God, these characters are shallow...

    I thought the 12th movie was alright. The action was good and plentiful, and I thought the background music complimented some parts very well (especially during the flashback where Arceus destroys the meteor). Still, Arceus doesn't really play the role of "God" very well, instead of being wise and all-knowing, he's unreasonable and violent, and some of the other characters aren't any better (did anyone, other than Damos, ever stop and think what the point of Arceus giving the Jewel of Life was, if it's only a temporary fix?)
  12. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    Ironic that you missed the one copy-paste that irritates me the most: the endings. While this may be a case of the clones spoiling the original since Movie 8 only really owes its ending to movies 5 and to a lesser extent 4 if memory serves, the fact that every Pokemon movie in recent memory seems to end with the titular Pokemon being outright killed to save the day or beaten to near-death and then revived somehow to save the day (cue your happy ending) really doesn't make me want to watch Movie 8 when I already know Lucario kicks the bucket at the end. The reason this irritates me more than anything else is the fact that it's the ending, y'know, the part that justifies everything that came before it, and for me having an original journey in the middle is meaningless when you hit the same destination anyway.

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