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DPPt/HGSS Soren's Platinum Team (needs help)

Discussion in 'The Doctor's Clinic' started by Lenvoy, Apr 16, 2009.

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  1. Here's my team-

    Infernape Lv. 43
    Cut
    Flame Wheel
    Close Combat
    Return

    Lucario Lv. 41
    Force Palm
    Rock Climb
    Counter
    Rock Smash

    Leafeon Lv. 42
    Magical Leaf
    Synthesis
    Razor Leaf
    Swift

    Togekiss Lv. 43
    Fly
    Wish
    Ancient Power
    Extreme Speed

    Gastradon Lv. 41
    Surf
    Muddy Water
    Dive
    Strength

    Frosslass Lv. 44
    Ice Punch
    Ominous Wind
    Hail
    Crunch

    That's it. I'm planning to-

    Replace Gastrodon's Muddy Water with Waterfall
    Replace Togekiss' Ancient Power with Sing

    Also, I'm about to go into the Route between the Resort Area and Sunyshore City. Any suggestions? Right now I'm weak against Psychic and Flying Types.
     
  2. KoL

    KoL FPS Guy
    Staff Member Moderator

    I'm assuming this is for in-game purposes.

    One thing you could do with here is a HM Slave. Most of the HM moves (with Surf, Waterfall and to a lesser extent, Rock Smash being the only real exceptions) are typically poor moves in battle. As such, you may want to remove them for more effective moves. Bibarel is a brilliant HM Slave, so if you have one, consider dumping some of your weaker HM moves onto it to free up slots on your team members' movesets.

    Moving on:

    - Infernape is alright, but Return isn't really necessary since Infernape has very nice type coverage, and Return doesn't really help it in that area. A good Rock-type move can work, and Grass Knot and ThunderPunch are viable options as well. Cut can also be dropped for another move, possibly Swords Dance from the Game Corner if you have the money for it.

    - Lucario really needs to drop the HM moves since they squatter its biggest strength: its enormous movepool. With moves like Psychic, Aura Sphere and Dragon Pulse on the special side and Close Combat, ExtremeSpeed and the elemental punches to bolster its physical movepool, Lucario's coverage is second only to that of Mew and possibly Rayquaza. Since both of Lucario's offensive stats are very impressive, mix and match the available moves and make a set that you like.

    - Leafeon doesn't need Magical Leaf, since Razor Leaf runs off its superior Attack stat and already gives you a STAB attack. Swift also is of little use since it also is a special attack. Good moves for Leafeon are Aerial Ace, Swords Dance (again), Return and X-Scissor if you can get hold of the appropriate TMs. I'd keep Synthesis though since Leafeon can take hits decently.

    - First of all, I hope your Togekiss has Serene Grace. If it does, Air Slash is a must for the 60% chance of flinching the opponent. Moves like AncientPower, Ominous Wind and Silver Wind are also good to have for boosting your stats. Aura Sphere is also a good move to have for its never-miss function.

    - Muddy Water is decent for Gastrodon since the Accuracy drop to the opponent combined with the damage the move does (same as Surf, which rocks with 95 Power) makes it deadly if luck is on your side, and still good even when it isn't. Having both Surf and Muddy Water isn't worth it though, so have either one or the other - typically, having two attacks of the same type in a moveset is a bad idea, so avoid it as much as you possibly can. Recover at Lv.54 is a must-have.

    - Your Froslass is quite good actually. Blizzard never misses when it is Hailing, so I'd definitely go for Blizzard here, although if the PP drop bothers you (combined with Ominous Wind it may do) then stick with what you have so far for your Ice-type attack. Crunch is somewhat obsolete since both Ghost and Dark-type moves get identical coverage, so swap Crunch with either Psychic or an Electric-type attack if you want, or even a disabling move like Confuse Ray for a more methodical approach.
     
  3. Sweet advice, dude! Just a few updates. First of all, I've switched out Lucario for Vespiquen. Also, I'm strongly against the use of HM Slaves (especially Bibarel). Simply because I find that HM's are necessary at all times. :p

    Infernape
    Close Combat
    Fire Blast
    Flame Wheel
    Rock Climb

    Vespiquen
    Defend Order
    Heal Order
    Attack Order

    Leafeon
    Rock Smash
    Synthesis
    Razor Leaf
    Leaf Blade

    Togekiss
    Fly
    Wish
    Defog
    Aerial Ace

    Gastrodon
    Surf
    Strength
    Recover
    Waterfall

    Frosslass
    Blizzard
    Ominous Wind
    Hail
    Protect

    Much Better, huh? As you can see, I've still got the TM's distributed throughout the party due to my own clinging beliefs. And yep, this is for in-game purposes.
     
  4. Better, but still, why two attacks of the same type on some of your Pokémon?

    Flame Wheel and Fire Blast on the same set isn't worth it. Flare Blitz is worth the Fire attack. Then put something in like U-Turn. It gives Infernape much better coverage.

    Vespiquen gets Aerial Ace for STAB. Toxic can also work to its favour, since Vespiquen can easily outstall some Pokémon and have them die to poison Damage.

    Leafeon only needs Leaf Blade. Give it X-Scissor or Aerial Ace to help it with some coverage problems.

    Gastrodon really doesn't need both Waterfall and Surf. Earthquake is a solid move. Extremely reliable, especially with STAB.
     
    #4 Plapti, Apr 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014
  5. Though, Defog is very unuseful on Togekiss... If you are planning to be a competitive battler, I'd suggest you give up some HMs. Also, HMs aren't really useful against the Elite Four, other then Surf and Fly.

    A moveset for Togekiss:

    -Fly/ Air Slash
    -Aura Sphere
    -ExtremeSpeed
    -Ominous Wind/ AncientPower/ Heat Wave
    This is a lot like my Togekiss's moveset.

    Fly/Air Slash: Both are STAB, and Air Slash is prefferable if Togekiss's ability is Serene Grace.

    Aura Sphere: A very lovely move, since it never misses and is pretty darn powerful.

    ExtremeSpeed: It always goes first, so it's ideal for a finishing move. Also STAB.

    Ominious Wind/AncientPower/Heat Wave: Both Ominous Wind and AncientPower have the possibility of raising all of your stats, and the Serene Grace ability will make it more probable that it will happen. Heat Wave is just a nice move, though dosen't to anything for Serene Grace.


    I'd suggest deleting Rock Climb on Infernape for ThunderPunch, to cover its Water and Flying weaknesses.

    I forgot, can Vespiquen learn Bug Buzz? If so, that would be a great move for it.

    And Earthquake would be nice on Gastrodon, preferrably over Strength, because Gastrodon and Frosslass could make a pretty good tag team.

    ;D I'll be back!
     
  6. I've figured it all out, I think. Bolded words are changes that will be made in the future.

    Infernape
    Close Combat
    Flame Wheel Flare Blitz
    Grass Knot
    Mach Punch Thunderpunch

    Vespiquen
    Heal Order
    Defend Order
    Attack Order
    Toxic

    Togekiss
    Sky Attack
    Aura Sphere
    Dream Eater
    Wish

    Leafeon
    Synthesis Grasswhistle
    Razor Leaf Leaf Blade
    Toxic
    Dig

    Gastrodon
    Surf Recover
    Dive Waterfall
    Earthquake
    Muddy Water

    Frosslass
    Ice Punch Blizzard
    Hail
    Protect
    Ominous Wind

    If you need me to explain why I chose anything, feel free to ask. :D

    Also, now I'm taking items into consideration. Does this seem good:

    Infernape: I need help with this one.
    Vespiquen: Silver Powder
    Togekiss: Wise Glasses
    Leafeon: Kebia Berry
    Gastrodon: Splash Plate Sea Incense
    Frosslass: Never Melt Ice Wide Lens
     
  7. I'd like to know why you have Dream Eater on Togekiss without any Sleep-inducing moves. (Unless, of course, you plan to pair it with Leafeon's Grasswhistle)

    I think Infernape's moveset is wonderful, as well as Leafeon's, though Dig might need replacing. Many opponents will switch out to a Flying or Levetating foe to avoid the attack. X Scissor or Aerial Ace would make nice replacements.
     
  8. For the Togekiss thing, you guessed right. I'm planning to tag-team it with Leafeon. That's also why I taught Leafeon Dig. I use dig, then use Ancient Power with Togekiss on the next turn so that it becomers super effective against a Flying type. Also, it eliminates Leafeon's weakness against Fire Types. :D Does it need replacing, though? I'm a bit unsure. ???
     
  9. Still having two Water moves on Gastrodon isn't that great. Body Slam would make a fine alternative to Muddy Water.

    I'd also like to point out that Air Slash is one of Togekiss' best moves. It provides great STAB off of its amazing 125 Base Special Attack.

    Life Orb is a good item for Infernape.

    And using Dig is just asking for Earthquake from something like, dunno Flygon maybe, to deal double damage?
     
  10. I'll switch Body Slam with Waterfall, actually.

    Sky Attack seemed to be the better move for Togekiss when I compared them. Should I replace Wish with Air Slash?

    Actually, I'm starting to think Sticky Barb would be better. I'll compare both.

    Not exactly. If I come across a Pokemon that might know Earthquake, I won't use Dig. And even if they do switch with something like Flygon, I'll still attack before the Flygon or whatever would get a chance to use Earthquake. Besides, Ground vs. Grass isn't a good match-up either way. Technically it would be normal damage.
     
  11. The amount of damage done to users underground is flat out doubled. I believe if it would do 100HP of damage, while underground, it would do something close to 200 HP (Correct me if I'm wrong)

    Sky Attack takes a turn to charge. Over two turns, Air Slash does more damgae, coming off of its higher Special Attack stat.

    Sticky Barb inflicts damage to the user. It inflicts 1/8 of the toal HP per turn, and also does damage if the user uses Physical moves to attack. It's 1/8 per physical attack as well. Life Orb is the superior choice between the two.

    Just as a note, Flygon is usually faster than Lefeon.
     
  12. Speed doesn't matter as long as the Pokemon uses Dig the turn before the other one switches out.

    I'm going to try the Life Orb, but I'm still far away from Stark Mountain.

    Hmmm. You're right about the Air Slash thing. I only chose Sky Attack because it increases the Pokemon's Critical Hit ratio. Paired with Aura Sphere, that can be devastating.
     
  13. Either way, using Dig is asking for levitating Pokémon and Flying-types to come in and start a nice sweep or to cause problems.

    As of right now, three of your party members are weak to Flying-types, so I'd be wary of using Dig on a team that has half of its members weak to a type that gives it a virtual immunity to switch into play from.
     
    #13 Plapti, Apr 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014
  14. You're probably right. I should just switch Dig with something that can effect Poison types well, and just switch the Kebia Berry with whatever helps make Fire-Type attacks less effective.

    Also, I noticed that my Vespiquen is extremely vulnerable to Fire-Type attacks. Should I switch it's Silver Powder with the corresponding berry?
     
    #14 Lenvoy, Apr 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014
  15. Vespiquen is also 4x weak to Rock attacks as well.

    The prblem you have here is that you have three Pokémon weak to Fire attacks and three weak to Flying attacks. Finding a way to deal with thise weaknesses is probably a good idea, considering lots of Pokémon use Fire and Flying attacks. especially with the introduction of Heat Wave to most Flying-types.
     
    #15 Plapti, Apr 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014
  16. Hey i have an Infernape too. He is at lv.81.but I say nice pokemon dude!But to help it get an item called charcoal to boost its fire-type moves.
     
  17. @ Jet- You read my mind. First of all, I'm putting in a few updates.

    @ rell- My Infernape only knows one Fire-Type move, so I don't think a Charcoal would help that much.

    Infernape Quick Claw
    Close Combat
    Flame Wheel Flare Blitz
    Grass Knot
    Mach Punch Thunderpunch

    Vespiquen Silver Powder
    Heal Order
    Defend Order
    Attack Order
    Toxic

    Togekiss Wise Glasses
    Sky Attack
    Aura Sphere
    Dream Eater
    Wish

    Leafeon Big Root
    Synthesis Grasswhistle
    Razor Leaf Leaf Blade
    Giga Drain
    Sunny Day

    Gastrodon Splash Plate Sea Incense
    Dive Recover
    Rock Slide
    Earthquake
    Muddy Water

    Frosslass Never Melt Ice
    Ice Punch Blizzard
    Hail
    Protect
    Ominous Wind
     
  18. WOW! You Have A Froslass? I Realy Want One...
     
  19. So, that last post was helpful to the user how?

    The Clinic is used for helping other teams, not stating the fact that you don't have certain Pokémon in your Pokédex yet.
     
    #19 Plapti, Apr 19, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014
  20. Thanks, Jet. I'm going to update now. :p I switched around Infernape's moves a bit, and a few others like Togekiss'. Also, Infernape is going to learn two Fire-Type moves because having only one is a waste of it's Ability.

    Infernape Scope Lens
    Close Combat
    Flamethrower Flare Blitz
    Grass Knot Blast Burn
    Calm Mind

    Vespiquen Silver Powder
    Heal Order
    Defend Order
    Attack Order
    Toxic

    Togekiss Wise Glasses
    Air Slash
    Silver Wind
    Aura Sphere
    Psychic

    Leafeon Heat Rock
    Synthesis
    Razor Leaf Leaf Blade
    Last Resort Grasswhistle
    Sunny Day

    Gastrodon Mystic Water
    Dive Recover
    Rock Slide
    Earthquake
    Muddy Water

    Frosslass Never Melt Ice Icy Rock
    Blizzard
    Hail
    Protect
    Ominous Wind
     
  21. The problem is that Infernape is known for his wide movepool compared to other Fire-Types.

    Going with Flamethrower, Close Combat and Grass Knot with Nasty Plot is a fine moveset.

    Don't use two fire moves, Infernape has betters attacks than two fire attacks on the same set.

    And Infernape will die to most neutral allatcks as it is. And Blast Burn is just asking to be set-up on.
     
  22. Hmmm...Maybe you're right. I like that move set, except Flamethrower should be replaced with Flare Blitz and Nasty Plot with ThunderPunch. :D
     
  23. ... I dissagree.

    Though Flare Blitz is powerful, it also damages the user. I think Flamethrower is much better than Flare Blitz in more ways than one.

    But, it's you're choice.
     
  24. KoL

    KoL FPS Guy
    Staff Member Moderator

    Typically, Flare Blitz is the (physical) attack move of choice on Infernape - in a competitive environment, the recoil damage is completely negligible since Infernape will likely die very quickly if it gets hit regardless of how much prior damage it has taken, and Flare Blitz grants a much greater chance of KO'ing Infernape's opponent than any other of its Fire-type physical moves.

    Overall this would result in a less efficient set since Infernape's biggest strength is being able to hit hard with both physical and special attacks, which makes defending against it quite difficult. By only using physical attacks, you greatly limit your effectiveness against anything with a decent Defense stat. Most notably, running ThunderPunch over Grass Knot effectively means you're doomed against Swampert, and odds are Close Combat won't be enough to OHKO an opposing Rhyperior either, and he can definitely murder you with ease. Swampert and Rhyperior are incredibly common as well - keep that in mind.

    Overall, Flamethrower/Grass Knot/Nasty Plot/Close Combat is widely considered to be Infernape's most effective moveset as of right now.
     
  25. But then people would know exactly what to expect. Besides, that leaves it weak against Flying Pokemon, Ground Pokemon, and most Water Pokemon.

    Also, what is STAB?
     
  26. STAB is Same Type Attack Bonus. Follow the link to find more information.

    Concerning Water and Ground-types, Grass Knot handles them quite nicely. Infernape has Nasty Plot to really boost Grass Knot's power as well.

    As for Flying-types, Flamethrower hits most of them hard. Or you can switch out.

    It's well known because it's very effective. If it wasn't effective, it wouldn't be well known.
     
  27. I'm not sure what it STANDS for, I just know this:

    Pokemon's moves are more powerful if the move matches the user's type.

    Some examples of STAB moves are:

    Buizel and Aqua Jet
    Elekid and ThunderPunch
    Monferno and MachPunch
    Venusaur with Sludge Bomb...

    (EDIT: Darn. Jet beat me to it.)
     
  28. I suppose you're right, Jet. Are you one of those people tht are always right? And thanks Shroomish-chan, that made it a lot easier to understand. ^^

    Before I let this thread slip into the void, I'm contemplating on whether or not to switch:

    Vespiquen>Ledian
    Gastrodon>Milotic
     
  29. KoL

    KoL FPS Guy
    Staff Member Moderator

    The Bee Queen outstrips Ledian by a considerable margin, in both stats and movepool, so I'd choose Vespiquen over Ledian any day of the week.

    Gastrodon vs Milotic is a bit tougher - both get Recover, both have pretty decent stats, Milotic probably has the better movepool overall, although Gastrodon's is still good, and Gastrodon's typing is better than Milotic's, with only a 4x weakness to Grass, which is a very uncommon attack type anyway, whereas Milotic's Electric weakness will be preyed upon much more often. I'd go with personal preference for this one myself.
     
  30. Hmmm...Gastrodon, simply for my mind-set that all my party
    Pokemon must be 4th Gen in a 4th Gen game. Alright. King of Lucario, you can lock this topic now if you want. :p
     
  31. KoL

    KoL FPS Guy
    Staff Member Moderator

    As a note for future topics, you can lock your own topics if you feel the need to.

    I'll lock 'er up anyway for you though.
     
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