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DPPt/HGSS Soren's Platinum Team (needs help)

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Here's my team-

Infernape Lv. 43
Cut
Flame Wheel
Close Combat
Return

Lucario Lv. 41
Force Palm
Rock Climb
Counter
Rock Smash

Leafeon Lv. 42
Magical Leaf
Synthesis
Razor Leaf
Swift

Togekiss Lv. 43
Fly
Wish
Ancient Power
Extreme Speed

Gastradon Lv. 41
Surf
Muddy Water
Dive
Strength

Frosslass Lv. 44
Ice Punch
Ominous Wind
Hail
Crunch

That's it. I'm planning to-

Replace Gastrodon's Muddy Water with Waterfall
Replace Togekiss' Ancient Power with Sing

Also, I'm about to go into the Route between the Resort Area and Sunyshore City. Any suggestions? Right now I'm weak against Psychic and Flying Types.
 

KoL

Expert FPS Player
Staff member
Moderator
I'm assuming this is for in-game purposes.

One thing you could do with here is a HM Slave. Most of the HM moves (with Surf, Waterfall and to a lesser extent, Rock Smash being the only real exceptions) are typically poor moves in battle. As such, you may want to remove them for more effective moves. Bibarel is a brilliant HM Slave, so if you have one, consider dumping some of your weaker HM moves onto it to free up slots on your team members' movesets.

Moving on:

- Infernape is alright, but Return isn't really necessary since Infernape has very nice type coverage, and Return doesn't really help it in that area. A good Rock-type move can work, and Grass Knot and ThunderPunch are viable options as well. Cut can also be dropped for another move, possibly Swords Dance from the Game Corner if you have the money for it.

- Lucario really needs to drop the HM moves since they squatter its biggest strength: its enormous movepool. With moves like Psychic, Aura Sphere and Dragon Pulse on the special side and Close Combat, ExtremeSpeed and the elemental punches to bolster its physical movepool, Lucario's coverage is second only to that of Mew and possibly Rayquaza. Since both of Lucario's offensive stats are very impressive, mix and match the available moves and make a set that you like.

- Leafeon doesn't need Magical Leaf, since Razor Leaf runs off its superior Attack stat and already gives you a STAB attack. Swift also is of little use since it also is a special attack. Good moves for Leafeon are Aerial Ace, Swords Dance (again), Return and X-Scissor if you can get hold of the appropriate TMs. I'd keep Synthesis though since Leafeon can take hits decently.

- First of all, I hope your Togekiss has Serene Grace. If it does, Air Slash is a must for the 60% chance of flinching the opponent. Moves like AncientPower, Ominous Wind and Silver Wind are also good to have for boosting your stats. Aura Sphere is also a good move to have for its never-miss function.

- Muddy Water is decent for Gastrodon since the Accuracy drop to the opponent combined with the damage the move does (same as Surf, which rocks with 95 Power) makes it deadly if luck is on your side, and still good even when it isn't. Having both Surf and Muddy Water isn't worth it though, so have either one or the other - typically, having two attacks of the same type in a moveset is a bad idea, so avoid it as much as you possibly can. Recover at Lv.54 is a must-have.

- Your Froslass is quite good actually. Blizzard never misses when it is Hailing, so I'd definitely go for Blizzard here, although if the PP drop bothers you (combined with Ominous Wind it may do) then stick with what you have so far for your Ice-type attack. Crunch is somewhat obsolete since both Ghost and Dark-type moves get identical coverage, so swap Crunch with either Psychic or an Electric-type attack if you want, or even a disabling move like Confuse Ray for a more methodical approach.
 
Sweet advice, dude! Just a few updates. First of all, I've switched out Lucario for Vespiquen. Also, I'm strongly against the use of HM Slaves (especially Bibarel). Simply because I find that HM's are necessary at all times. :p

Infernape
Close Combat
Fire Blast
Flame Wheel
Rock Climb

Vespiquen
Defend Order
Heal Order
Attack Order

Leafeon
Rock Smash
Synthesis
Razor Leaf
Leaf Blade

Togekiss
Fly
Wish
Defog
Aerial Ace

Gastrodon
Surf
Strength
Recover
Waterfall

Frosslass
Blizzard
Ominous Wind
Hail
Protect

Much Better, huh? As you can see, I've still got the TM's distributed throughout the party due to my own clinging beliefs. And yep, this is for in-game purposes.
 
Better, but still, why two attacks of the same type on some of your Pokémon?

Flame Wheel and Fire Blast on the same set isn't worth it. Flare Blitz is worth the Fire attack. Then put something in like U-Turn. It gives Infernape much better coverage.

Vespiquen gets Aerial Ace for STAB. Toxic can also work to its favour, since Vespiquen can easily outstall some Pokémon and have them die to poison Damage.

Leafeon only needs Leaf Blade. Give it X-Scissor or Aerial Ace to help it with some coverage problems.

Gastrodon really doesn't need both Waterfall and Surf. Earthquake is a solid move. Extremely reliable, especially with STAB.
 
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Though, Defog is very unuseful on Togekiss... If you are planning to be a competitive battler, I'd suggest you give up some HMs. Also, HMs aren't really useful against the Elite Four, other then Surf and Fly.

A moveset for Togekiss:

-Fly/ Air Slash
-Aura Sphere
-ExtremeSpeed
-Ominous Wind/ AncientPower/ Heat Wave
This is a lot like my Togekiss's moveset.

Fly/Air Slash: Both are STAB, and Air Slash is prefferable if Togekiss's ability is Serene Grace.

Aura Sphere: A very lovely move, since it never misses and is pretty darn powerful.

ExtremeSpeed: It always goes first, so it's ideal for a finishing move. Also STAB.

Ominious Wind/AncientPower/Heat Wave: Both Ominous Wind and AncientPower have the possibility of raising all of your stats, and the Serene Grace ability will make it more probable that it will happen. Heat Wave is just a nice move, though dosen't to anything for Serene Grace.


I'd suggest deleting Rock Climb on Infernape for ThunderPunch, to cover its Water and Flying weaknesses.

I forgot, can Vespiquen learn Bug Buzz? If so, that would be a great move for it.

And Earthquake would be nice on Gastrodon, preferrably over Strength, because Gastrodon and Frosslass could make a pretty good tag team.

;D I'll be back!
 
I've figured it all out, I think. Bolded words are changes that will be made in the future.

Infernape
Close Combat
Flame Wheel Flare Blitz
Grass Knot
Mach Punch Thunderpunch

Vespiquen
Heal Order
Defend Order
Attack Order
Toxic

Togekiss
Sky Attack
Aura Sphere
Dream Eater
Wish

Leafeon
Synthesis Grasswhistle
Razor Leaf Leaf Blade
Toxic
Dig

Gastrodon
Surf Recover
Dive Waterfall
Earthquake
Muddy Water

Frosslass
Ice Punch Blizzard
Hail
Protect
Ominous Wind

If you need me to explain why I chose anything, feel free to ask. :D

Also, now I'm taking items into consideration. Does this seem good:

Infernape: I need help with this one.
Vespiquen: Silver Powder
Togekiss: Wise Glasses
Leafeon: Kebia Berry
Gastrodon: Splash Plate Sea Incense
Frosslass: Never Melt Ice Wide Lens
 
I'd like to know why you have Dream Eater on Togekiss without any Sleep-inducing moves. (Unless, of course, you plan to pair it with Leafeon's Grasswhistle)

I think Infernape's moveset is wonderful, as well as Leafeon's, though Dig might need replacing. Many opponents will switch out to a Flying or Levetating foe to avoid the attack. X Scissor or Aerial Ace would make nice replacements.
 
I'd like to know why you have Dream Eater on Togekiss without any Sleep-inducing moves. (Unless, of course, you plan to pair it with Leafeon's Grasswhistle)

I think Infernape's moveset is wonderful, as well as Leafeon's, though Dig might need replacing. Many opponents will switch out to a Flying or Levetating foe to avoid the attack. X Scissor or Aerial Ace would make nice replacements.

For the Togekiss thing, you guessed right. I'm planning to tag-team it with Leafeon. That's also why I taught Leafeon Dig. I use dig, then use Ancient Power with Togekiss on the next turn so that it becomers super effective against a Flying type. Also, it eliminates Leafeon's weakness against Fire Types. :D Does it need replacing, though? I'm a bit unsure. ???
 
Still having two Water moves on Gastrodon isn't that great. Body Slam would make a fine alternative to Muddy Water.

I'd also like to point out that Air Slash is one of Togekiss' best moves. It provides great STAB off of its amazing 125 Base Special Attack.

Life Orb is a good item for Infernape.

And using Dig is just asking for Earthquake from something like, dunno Flygon maybe, to deal double damage?
 
Still having two Water moves on Gastrodon isn't that great. Body Slam would make a fine alternative to Muddy Water.
I'll switch Body Slam with Waterfall, actually.

I'd also like to point out that Air Slash is one of Togekiss' best moves. It provides great STAB off of its amazing 125 Base Special Attack.
Sky Attack seemed to be the better move for Togekiss when I compared them. Should I replace Wish with Air Slash?

Life Orb is a good item for Infernape.
Actually, I'm starting to think Sticky Barb would be better. I'll compare both.

And using Dig is just asking for Earthquake from something like, dunno Flygon maybe, to deal double damage?
Not exactly. If I come across a Pokemon that might know Earthquake, I won't use Dig. And even if they do switch with something like Flygon, I'll still attack before the Flygon or whatever would get a chance to use Earthquake. Besides, Ground vs. Grass isn't a good match-up either way. Technically it would be normal damage.
 
The amount of damage done to users underground is flat out doubled. I believe if it would do 100HP of damage, while underground, it would do something close to 200 HP (Correct me if I'm wrong)

Sky Attack takes a turn to charge. Over two turns, Air Slash does more damgae, coming off of its higher Special Attack stat.

Sticky Barb inflicts damage to the user. It inflicts 1/8 of the toal HP per turn, and also does damage if the user uses Physical moves to attack. It's 1/8 per physical attack as well. Life Orb is the superior choice between the two.

Just as a note, Flygon is usually faster than Lefeon.
 
Speed doesn't matter as long as the Pokemon uses Dig the turn before the other one switches out.

I'm going to try the Life Orb, but I'm still far away from Stark Mountain.

Hmmm. You're right about the Air Slash thing. I only chose Sky Attack because it increases the Pokemon's Critical Hit ratio. Paired with Aura Sphere, that can be devastating.
 
Either way, using Dig is asking for levitating Pokémon and Flying-types to come in and start a nice sweep or to cause problems.

As of right now, three of your party members are weak to Flying-types, so I'd be wary of using Dig on a team that has half of its members weak to a type that gives it a virtual immunity to switch into play from.
 
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Either way, using Dig is asking for levitating Pokémon and Flying-types to come in and start a nice sweep or to cause problems.

As of right now, three of your party members are weak to Flying-types, so I'd be wary of using Dig on a team that has half of its members weak to a type that gives it a virtual immunity to switch into play from.

You're probably right. I should just switch Dig with something that can effect Poison types well, and just switch the Kebia Berry with whatever helps make Fire-Type attacks less effective.

Also, I noticed that my Vespiquen is extremely vulnerable to Fire-Type attacks. Should I switch it's Silver Powder with the corresponding berry?
 
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Vespiquen is also 4x weak to Rock attacks as well.

The prblem you have here is that you have three Pokémon weak to Fire attacks and three weak to Flying attacks. Finding a way to deal with thise weaknesses is probably a good idea, considering lots of Pokémon use Fire and Flying attacks. especially with the introduction of Heat Wave to most Flying-types.
 
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Hey i have an Infernape too. He is at lv.81.but I say nice pokemon dude!But to help it get an item called charcoal to boost its fire-type moves.
 
@ Jet- You read my mind. First of all, I'm putting in a few updates.

@ rell- My Infernape only knows one Fire-Type move, so I don't think a Charcoal would help that much.

Infernape Quick Claw
Close Combat
Flame Wheel Flare Blitz
Grass Knot
Mach Punch Thunderpunch

Vespiquen Silver Powder
Heal Order
Defend Order
Attack Order
Toxic

Togekiss Wise Glasses
Sky Attack
Aura Sphere
Dream Eater
Wish

Leafeon Big Root
Synthesis Grasswhistle
Razor Leaf Leaf Blade
Giga Drain
Sunny Day

Gastrodon Splash Plate Sea Incense
Dive Recover
Rock Slide
Earthquake
Muddy Water

Frosslass Never Melt Ice
Ice Punch Blizzard
Hail
Protect
Ominous Wind
 
So, that last post was helpful to the user how?

The Clinic is used for helping other teams, not stating the fact that you don't have certain Pokémon in your Pokédex yet.
 
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Thanks, Jet. I'm going to update now. :p I switched around Infernape's moves a bit, and a few others like Togekiss'. Also, Infernape is going to learn two Fire-Type moves because having only one is a waste of it's Ability.

Infernape Scope Lens
Close Combat
Flamethrower Flare Blitz
Grass Knot Blast Burn
Calm Mind

Vespiquen Silver Powder
Heal Order
Defend Order
Attack Order
Toxic

Togekiss Wise Glasses
Air Slash
Silver Wind
Aura Sphere
Psychic

Leafeon Heat Rock
Synthesis
Razor Leaf Leaf Blade
Last Resort Grasswhistle
Sunny Day

Gastrodon Mystic Water
Dive Recover
Rock Slide
Earthquake
Muddy Water

Frosslass Never Melt Ice Icy Rock
Blizzard
Hail
Protect
Ominous Wind
 
The problem is that Infernape is known for his wide movepool compared to other Fire-Types.

Going with Flamethrower, Close Combat and Grass Knot with Nasty Plot is a fine moveset.

Don't use two fire moves, Infernape has betters attacks than two fire attacks on the same set.

And Infernape will die to most neutral allatcks as it is. And Blast Burn is just asking to be set-up on.
 
Hmmm...Maybe you're right. I like that move set, except Flamethrower should be replaced with Flare Blitz and Nasty Plot with ThunderPunch. :D
 
... I dissagree.

Though Flare Blitz is powerful, it also damages the user. I think Flamethrower is much better than Flare Blitz in more ways than one.

But, it's you're choice.
 

KoL

Expert FPS Player
Staff member
Moderator
Typically, Flare Blitz is the (physical) attack move of choice on Infernape - in a competitive environment, the recoil damage is completely negligible since Infernape will likely die very quickly if it gets hit regardless of how much prior damage it has taken, and Flare Blitz grants a much greater chance of KO'ing Infernape's opponent than any other of its Fire-type physical moves.

Hmmm...Maybe you're right. I like that move set, except Flamethrower should be replaced with Flare Blitz and Nasty Plot with ThunderPunch. :D

Overall this would result in a less efficient set since Infernape's biggest strength is being able to hit hard with both physical and special attacks, which makes defending against it quite difficult. By only using physical attacks, you greatly limit your effectiveness against anything with a decent Defense stat. Most notably, running ThunderPunch over Grass Knot effectively means you're doomed against Swampert, and odds are Close Combat won't be enough to OHKO an opposing Rhyperior either, and he can definitely murder you with ease. Swampert and Rhyperior are incredibly common as well - keep that in mind.

Overall, Flamethrower/Grass Knot/Nasty Plot/Close Combat is widely considered to be Infernape's most effective moveset as of right now.
 
Overall, Flamethrower/Grass Knot/Nasty Plot/Close Combat is widely considered to be Infernape's most effective moveset as of right now.

But then people would know exactly what to expect. Besides, that leaves it weak against Flying Pokemon, Ground Pokemon, and most Water Pokemon.

Also, what is STAB?
 
STAB is Same Type Attack Bonus. Follow the link to find more information.

Concerning Water and Ground-types, Grass Knot handles them quite nicely. Infernape has Nasty Plot to really boost Grass Knot's power as well.

As for Flying-types, Flamethrower hits most of them hard. Or you can switch out.

It's well known because it's very effective. If it wasn't effective, it wouldn't be well known.
 
I'm not sure what it STANDS for, I just know this:

Pokemon's moves are more powerful if the move matches the user's type.

Some examples of STAB moves are:

Buizel and Aqua Jet
Elekid and ThunderPunch
Monferno and MachPunch
Venusaur with Sludge Bomb...

(EDIT: Darn. Jet beat me to it.)
 
I suppose you're right, Jet. Are you one of those people tht are always right? And thanks Shroomish-chan, that made it a lot easier to understand. ^^

Before I let this thread slip into the void, I'm contemplating on whether or not to switch:

Vespiquen>Ledian
Gastrodon>Milotic
 

KoL

Expert FPS Player
Staff member
Moderator
The Bee Queen outstrips Ledian by a considerable margin, in both stats and movepool, so I'd choose Vespiquen over Ledian any day of the week.

Gastrodon vs Milotic is a bit tougher - both get Recover, both have pretty decent stats, Milotic probably has the better movepool overall, although Gastrodon's is still good, and Gastrodon's typing is better than Milotic's, with only a 4x weakness to Grass, which is a very uncommon attack type anyway, whereas Milotic's Electric weakness will be preyed upon much more often. I'd go with personal preference for this one myself.
 
The Bee Queen outstrips Ledian by a considerable margin, in both stats and movepool, so I'd choose Vespiquen over Ledian any day of the week.

Gastrodon vs Milotic is a bit tougher - both get Recover, both have pretty decent stats, Milotic probably has the better movepool overall, although Gastrodon's is still good, and Gastrodon's typing is better than Milotic's, with only a 4x weakness to Grass, which is a very uncommon attack type anyway, whereas Milotic's Electric weakness will be preyed upon much more often. I'd go with personal preference for this one myself.
Hmmm...Gastrodon, simply for my mind-set that all my party
Pokemon must be 4th Gen in a 4th Gen game. Alright. King of Lucario, you can lock this topic now if you want. :p
 

KoL

Expert FPS Player
Staff member
Moderator
As a note for future topics, you can lock your own topics if you feel the need to.

I'll lock 'er up anyway for you though.
 
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