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Pokemon as a Game Series: Growing or Failing?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Chat' started by Linkachu, Apr 18, 2005.

  1. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    Wasn't sure whether to place this here or not, but since it is a debate...

    We always hear it with every new generation: Pokemon is going downhill; the Pokemon are less creative/original than before; the creators are running out of ideas; Pokemon is getting boring/repetitive. How many of us have said this, may it be a spurt-of-the-moment reaction to new information or because we truly believe it? Skim any Pokemon forum and you'll see these arguments used over and over again.

    Is it the truth?

    Think about your own enjoyment of the games. Overall has it grown over the years or waned? And do you see yourself still actively enjoying it 5 years down the road?


    Before I start rambling, I'm going state my opinion up front: I do not think the series has declined over the years. This has nothing to do with sales, repetitiveness in the anime, or a few unoriginal Pokemon. It's my overall enjoyment, and it's clear to me that I love the series just as much, if not more, than I ever have.

    Will the creators ever be able to recapture the sensation of "newness" when it comes to the series? No, they probably won't, but the reason why is obvious. You only get one first impression - you're only a newbie once. Does that mean future games can't be better, though? Of course not, but we'll never forget that feeling of entering an unknown world. It's life.

    Now... Let's look at the games.
    Each generation has improved from the last. R/B were horribly unbalanced with Psychic-types, thus Dark-types were created. 1 on 1 battles were getting repetitive, thus 2 on 2 came into being (and man am I glad they did). More is not always better, but IMO ALL of the changes to the Pokemon series - Natures, Abilities, the new HMs, Steel and Dark types - are great and well wanted. It all just builds together to expand the gameplay and give us something new to work with.
    Even with Natures, Pokemon is still as simple or complex as you make it. If you don't want to bother with Natures or EVs, don't. Even with a lowered stat it doesn't make a difference for the main game. It's only serious battling that they count, and having optimal customizability is what competitive battlers need. It's what allows us to really show our abilities at strategizing.

    To me, Ruby and Sapphire are the best set of games. They may have horrid leveling up issues, but they gave us so many new things that even FR/LG don't have (berry growing, diving, etc.). Since Emerald is a step up from them it's only going to be that much better. I think I'm more excited about it than I was the remakes. If Diamond and Pearl continue on with all the new things Emerald and FR/LG have to offer they will be undeniably the best Pokemon games yet.

    Now, the Pokemon. I've said it before, GS is my least favourite generation - both for the region and Pokemon. As for Hoenn... I can not look at the Pokemon series and not think of the Hoenn Pokemon. They're just as important to me as the original 151. Maybe some of the new Hoenn breeds are plain, but EVERY generation had plain Pokemon. Yes, even the original. Dugtrio, Magneton, Electrode... We love them for whatever reasons, but they are no where more creative than the worst Hoenn Pokemon.

    There's much, much more to say, but all this is just adding up to one thing: if Pokemon continues on like this I'll be a fan until they stop making the games. People who say it's the same as it always was aren't paying attention, and people who can't adapt to the changes have to realize without change you can't have progress. Seriously, would you really rather play through a whole new generation of games with no new Pokemon? There'd be a few new gameplay additions but it'd just be the same old battle strategies... What's the point?
  2. i've been playin pkmn 4 nearly 10 years now it sure has changed they got rid of some of teh best tms sky attack,fissure and i think the idea r gettin plain but they made 2on2 battles, contests and minigames but i h8 rs i preffered gs and rgb but anyway i'll c how d/p goes
  3. :shock: Thanks for that opinion, Farfetch'd... :? (Ah, the reason you must have poor English is because you speak Japanese, hence your reference to "RGB." It all makes sense now.)

    I've found myself enjoying the games less lately, because, while they've retained their freshness with each generation, they just don't have the ability to make it new again.

    It's like Star Wars sequels: you see the first one, and you love it. When you find out there's going to be a sequel, you're all pumped up for it, and you find yourself back in that familiar universe, with all your favourite characters plus (this is the big bit) brand new characters, new places and new fights! Wow! This is sweet stuff!

    But the movie after that...it's not totally new anymore. You've already seen a sequel. You already know what it's like to be back in that galaxy far, far away. And while it may still be a great movie in its own respects, it doesn't have the same feel as the first sequel.

    Another way to put it is going on vacation to, say, Winnipeg. It's all cool, you get to sleep in hotels on the way, you get to eat out, and then when you get there you get to hang out with relatives and old friends. A few years later when you do it all again, it's just like old times! Just like how you remember it, but better because now you're older and get to do even BETTER activites. The next time, though, yeah, it's just like old times, but...you've DONE this before. It's lost its novelty.

    (Okay, so maybe I'm the only one who can relate to the above experiences, but the point is still that you can only have one first sequel to transport you back to the good old days. After that it's just kinda "Here we go again." That's why GSC was my favourite generation: because everything was so new, and yet, so familiar. It's a sequel, hooray! With RSE, it was a sequel, um...hooray?)

    I say all of this not to make it sound like I think the series has declined: I don't. I still love the games as games, and they're obviously doing well enough if they're the second-best-selling franchise in history. (Can you guess what the first is? :wink: ). With each passing game I spend more and more time on it. But I'm never quite as excited about them anymore from a "new game" standpoint. I'm more excited about them from an "it's not over yet" point.

    (Even though people posted after you, Katie, I still proclaim you teh winnar. You deserve it for reading through this post. ^_^)
  4. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    Go me ^_~

    And yeah, I can relate to the "newness" issues you mentioned above, including the movies, trips, etc. The ironic part about it all is that recapturing that "new" experience means taking drastic steps (ie. giving Pokemon an active battle system like Tales of Symphonia instead of the turn-based one we're used to), but when a series does that many fans reject the changes. Some people just can't accept change. It's human nature I guess :?
  5. baratron

    baratron Moderator of Elder Scrolls
    Staff Member Moderator

    Some people just can't accept change? I think that should be most people can't accept change :?.

    I'm definitely included in that. I'm one of those strange geeks: both technophile (loving technology) and neophobe (fearing of new things/change). Basically how this manifests is that changes which seem more intuitive to me are good - like the DS, which is just like the GBA only with a touch screen, whereas changes which seem less intuitive to me are bad - like every new version of Windows. Whether or not something seems intuitive is pretty subjective, and depends a lot on how it's presented.

    Pikmin is an excellent example of how to present a sequel. Pikmin 2 changed nothing that didn't need to be changed - the saving and loading screen is virtually identical, the controls are the same, the sounds are the same. They removed the restriction of HAVING to complete the game within 30 days of game time, which drove almost everyone to constant reloading of previous saved games, and made a fair number of people never actually finish the first game. But they added a lot to the gameplay by putting in the second leader, and adding Challenge mode. Now, I can't imagine having to tackle levels with only a single leader. I hope there is a Pikmin 3, because I trust them to give me more of the same only different. Just new levels for the existing game would be enough.

    I actually understand the holiday analogy quite well. While people don't like change that's forced on them, people do change as they get older. Sometimes you don't notice how much you've changed until you, say, go on holiday somewhere that used to be really exciting. The problem comes when the game evolves in one direction while you've moved in another. Then it's never going to seem as good as it used to.

    I can't really comment on Pokemon being new and shiny because I haven't been interested in it for long enough - it's all still new and shiny to me. But in terms of other games, I used to be very, very into The Sims. I was so into it I had subscriptions to most of the major pay sites and every single one of the expansion packs. But after a while, I just lost interest. I still don't really know why - I just felt like I'd done everything with my existing sims that I could (they had almost entirely maxed-out skills, for instance), and I tried making new sims but just couldn't get interested in them. (It didn't help that my computer was too slow to run all the expansion packs one on top of the other, either). I'm going to try The Sims 2 now that we have a computer that can run it, and maybe that'll be exciting again. Or maybe I've changed too much to ever find it fun. I dunno.
  6. I was actually thinking about putting in a little reference to Pikmin in my post. Great minds think alike!

    I do hope for more Pikmin games, yes, but I have to say I'm a little afraid that it might not be as much fun as the first two. I loved Pikmin (just like I loved RBY), I loved Pikmin 2 because it was just like being back in the world I knew and loved from the first Pikmin, with new places to explore and new characters to get to know (just like GSC). If Pikmin 3 ever comes out, I worry that it might be like RSE: perhaps the best and most sophisticated of the series thus far, but not so much an experience to be had as a game to be played.
  7. I don't think poke'mon is going down hill I think it has changed alot they have alot of new attacks every time and new poke'mon they already have 5 new PKM they are cool but...

    Baby poke'mon are cute but they got out of hand baby magmar, baby snorlax, baby sudowoudo, baby pikachu, baby Jyxn and ect.

    So it's so and so I;m back and foreith on the subject!!!
  8. Hmm ive been told its dying but i think its very much alive...
  9. I've been playing, watching, mastering, and betting every game realeshed in the United states! I've been a fan for 9 yrs so I think they might be growing a little at a time but mabye are running out of Ideas!!
  10. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    People say they're running out of ideas every new generation, but they always manage to pull out something more interesting than before. There's nothing more "creative" about the Johto Pokemon than Hoenn Pokemon in my eyes, and while the few D/P Pokemon who have been revealed sofar aren't that amazing (aside from Lucario; I love that thing) I'm sure the end results will be the same: some horrible Pokemon, some so-so, and some you just love to death.
  11. For me, those have been revealed already: Bonsly and Manene. I really really like 'em, because they're related to two of my favorite Pokemon. I also always thought that they could use pre-evos to increase their movepool (particularly Sudowoodo; its moveset is pretty bad). Now, if they introduced a Pokemon related to Castform, maybe, or Smeargle...
  12. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    Grave digging lolz

    With all the opinions flying around about D/P recently I was led back to this topic, and after reading through it I realized that my opinion on the matter is still the same (tho I could've stated my previous thoughts in better ways. Meh XP). But what about you guys? After seeing D/P, are you more impressed with the direction the series is taking, less impressed, or about the same as before.

    Am I more excited in that giddy-sense over the D/P revelations than previous generations? Probably not, but contrary to what some may think it has nothing to do with the new Pokemon or DP seeming like a 'let down'. It's just because, like QQ's analogy, I've experienced it all before. Not just that, I'm also more cautious nowadays when it comes to new games, movies, etc. I usually just try to keep an open mind without getting hyped up.

    It's strange... Back when GSC was released, I was giddy as heck for finally seeing BRAND NEW POKEMON! But after awhile, that giddiness faded... I lost interest in the majority of them. When Hoenn was revealed, I scoffed at many of the new Pokemon for their designs, but then when I started training them I grew to love the majority.

    Now we have D/P, a gen taking the designs of Pokemon even further and giving us a lot that may not seem all that attractive at first glance. And yet... I'm itching to train most all of them, because I know that's the only way to really get a 'feel' for them. Well, maybe not the one-stagers. No matter how cute that squirrel is, weak one-stagers suck :p

    I guess it goes back to the hype thing. Hype is not all its cracked up to be. It makes you excited, but it also puts you at more risk for disappointment too. That said, taking everything in a negative perspective is no better. If anything, it's plain annoying. Keep an open mind and you may surprise yourself. Yeah, I've stated my dislikes of certain Pokemon and a few less favorable aspects of DP (like the Shino Dex) very clearly, but people have to understand that just because I dislike something doesn't mean I hate it, and it certainly doesn't mean I can't learn to accept it in order to enjoy the rest of the games and get the most out of them.
  13. Ya know, I think I'll reply to this topic, even though I have put into effect the "D/P Doesn't Exist, What Are You Talking About?" (I cringed when I saw the last post, but luckily, nothing was spoiled ^_^ ) plan, so therefore, I still have a "Pondering Shinou attitude." So my opinion will be without many facts, and I'm really only posting this because I don't wanna do my 3bil homework. X3

    Okay, so people ALWAYS will complain about new things. Heck, even I complain about new things! I love tradition (actually, I love patterns, but whatev'...), so sometimes, things are so new that I can't find anything old that I love anymore. Also, when you just have the initial bunch of whatever (the first game/book/movie/thingy in a series), the sequel is purely your imagination. You can make it whatever you want, with unlimited coolness, simply because it doesn't exist outside of your imagination and you think it up with only you in mind. Then, the said sequel actually comes out, and you're disappointed because all that you imagined isn't in the actual thing (and it never will be).

    Fortunately for me, I suffered from this neither in GS or RS (I wasn't a big enough fan or old enough), and only slightly in Emerald and FrLg (since I wasn't obsessed enough about them to ponder their new additions). However, I am REALLY worried about DP for this reason. I blame fanfiction, it really gave my creativity a jump-start at an early age. Stupid fanfiction. X3

    From what I've heard about DP, I can't say I'm as excited as I was about GS or RS. Of course, I don't exactly think it's fair to say that, as I was in elementary school and early middle school, respectively, and I received most of my GS information after it was released or just prior to its US release (I got Gold a few months later), and I found out about RS the weekend before it's US release. (Gaah, such good timing!)

    But maybe that's just my imagination to blame-the more information I got, the more my imagination conjured up my own Shinou to match, and the less information I had, the more I got to design for my enjoyment. Either way it's bad. I have to last about five more months with my "Imagined Shinou" to think about, and that's five months to get attached to it. No matter what, when I see the real Shinou, I'll just be disappointed. Whenever I see any new information, the real Shinou loses the little advantage it has over my Imagined Shinou-surprise. Surprise, for me, is always a plus, since it's all (and I quote) "new and shiny."

    But in terms of change...eh, I think the Pokemon games are fine in that regard. There is very little I miss from the old games that they could possibly add to the new games (since I miss the regions, and they can't really add them in). I think they always change for the better...it's just that, maybe, they won't change enough.

    From what I've heard of the new Shinou Pokemon, I don't like much of. Currently, I'm banking on the plot and the region itself (things that have barely been spoiled for me) to make me luv those games. Sure, it will never be as special to me as GSC, but I don't even think I love that generation because it's that generation, I love it because of the memories I have ASSOCIATED with that region. Probably, just on its own merits, RSE is my favorite, but I can't tell for sure (I'm a Johto-lover at heart, I guess).

    So really, for me, the Pokemon games really aren't about the games at all (weird, huh?). Even if I hate the game itself, I could end up pulling another Crystal, and bringing Diamond with me to some awesome trip (well, two, technically). Crystal and Gold are one of one of my two most precious preciouses (hehehe, Gollum!). However, I'm sure they're only up there by association.

    My conclusion? Nah, as of now, I don't think the games are falling. I think they're growing. Maybe one generation grows more than another, but when you think about it, every generation grows. And every new generation ('cuz they'd BETTER keep making them X3 ) will still grow, as long as they have one crucial element: new Pokemon. The day Nintendo and Gamefreak begin a new generation without new Pokemon is a day the Pokemon dynasty will fall.

    (Okies, that's my little rant. Took me a bit to write it, thanks for reading it, blah blah blah. If it's okay, I'll probably reply to this topic again when I see DP, so expect another long post ('cuz I get carried away easily) either on or shortly after the US release. Until then...jaaaaaa mata ne!)
  14. I think it's growing because of all the cool new kinds of pokemon games that arent like the others. For excample Pokemon mystery dungeon is not like the other pokemon games, the others are where you be trainers and catch pokemon where mystery dungeon is where you be a pokemon and you live in a Pokemon world and rescue other pokemon. They're also coming out with pokemon ranger which is not like the others either. So it's growing
  15. I will say it is growing as it is also failing. The pokemon that they have created for the 4th Generation could have been better. Look at the evos for Tangela and Likitung. IMO, they absolutely suck. They are starting to put more features into the game as well as making them longer than before.
  16. Don't diss Lickilicky. He'll...LicKILLicky you.

    Barely a month until most of us get to get our hands on and train some of these new bad boys. And there's still the new Pokémon game to be revealed the week before that by Corocoro.
    #16 QuagsireQing, Mar 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014
  17. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    During my spring break vacation I was discussing with a friend why she doesn't care for Pokemon as much now as she did before. Her answer was basically that the series hasn't really changed, its just become more complicated and advanced. In other words, it's still the same general plot: beat the 8 gyms, challenge the E4, become the new champion, etc. There are more fleshed out story elements each game, but if you were to take that all away you'd still be left with the standard Gym saga.

    I do and don't agree with that myself. I mean, don't fix it if it ain't broken, right? The Gym saga has gotten repetitive, yeah, but a lot of us also love it because it shows your steady progression through the world. Not just that, we have multiple spin-offs now that don't involve gyms at all. Mystery Dungeon, Ranger, and Colosseum/XD... if you can stand the lack of adventuring and repetitive battles xp

    So I dunno. As I see it, Colosseum and XD WERE the attempt at a non-standard Pokemon RPG, even if they didn't quite reach the expectations of most players. There's always next time, eh? I'm just not sure if completely axing the gym idea in the standard handhelds would be the right way to go. Leave them intact I say and just keep giving us the spin-offs to satisfy the desire for something more. After all, for all the people who wanted a Pokemon MMO, it didn't have to happen in DP, eh? (Nor did I ever see that happening myself)
  18. Dang...that's an [glow=red,2,300]EXCELLENT QUESTION[/glow] that takes tons of thought. You know what I think? I believe that many of the people around ages 16 and above, think the original 150 are the only TRUE Pokemon, and they stick to Red, Blue, and Yellow, even though they are WAY "old school".

    Younger kids...(now before you freak out, I'd like to tell you that I'm not being stereotypical, here. I know that tons of people 16 and older continue on to play the newer Pokemon games.) Anyway, in general, the younger kids are sticking with the newer games, and aren't as embarassed to tell people that they still play Pokemon...I mean...no college student would go around saying, "I LOVE POKEMON!" unless they wanted to be a total reject... :-\

    The business is still continuing 'cause the younger kids with the older siblings told 'em about it, the younger kids thought it was interesting, they tell they're other younger siblings about it when they're older, and it continues on. Just a basic theory. Oppose to it if you want...I want to hear what you guys have to say...

    I totally agree with your theory. Those spin-offs are for a little variety from the basic Pokemon games...and...spring break?!?!? Gosh...I haven't had mine yet...I have it in like 5 weeks still!

  19. As far as the games go I don't think its going downhill. Beating 8 gyms then the Elite Four doesn't get repetitive in my opinion. Maybe its just me but some regions are more challenging to play through than others. I started my pokemon journey in Johto so it is my favorite region. (told you I was biased) Since G/S/C it has only gotten better. I will keep buying the games as they are produced. I actually like the new D/P pokemon as a whole (with the notable exception of the evolutions of Lickitung, Tangela, Rhydon, Togetic, and especially Magmar and Electabuzz) They'll defienitely be on my team; I don't care if they're aesthetically challenged.

    I'm looking forward to Sinnoh and any future Pokemon (can't say the same about the anime). Anyway I would have gotten bored if there weren't in Pokemon after the original 151. They are special but there had to be more.
  20. I must make two points here, and then I'll state my opinion...

    1. Remember, most of us were just little kids was back when R/B came out. Everything is more exciting when you're little. As you get older, things change, and the things that once were so exciting become dull and boring.

    2. When Poke'mon first came out, it stood alone, almost in it's own category. You had to catch 150 (151 if you counted Mew) Poke'mon to actually complete the game. Sure, you beat the story, but that wasn't really what the game was about. No other game had posed such a challenge to players. And not only that, you had to interact with other trainers in your area to get all of the Poke'mon, meaning you couldn't go it alone. This added tons to the novelty of Poke'mon.

    My opinion on this matter is thus: I have been enjoying the games more and more ever since the beginning. It's always been fun for me to wait and see what my favorites look like in their new graphics, what new moves there will be, what the new evos will look like, and, more recently, new abilities. Sure, the Poke'mon may be getting a bit repetitive, and sure, some Poke'mon may be getting evos they don't need, etc. But hey, if you were in charge of making new Poke'mon, could you do any better? If your job was riding on making these guys, could you outdo the current team? Probably not. I for one respect the guys that make up the new Poke'mon each gen.

    Whew, that rant was crazy. ^_^
  21. From a personal standpoint, I think that the GS set was the pinnacle of the Pokémon series, it improved till then, and imo has declined somewhat scince, although there have been some nice updates, and i cant wait for DP to come out.
    #21 Nieru, Mar 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014
  22. Alright where to start,
    Pokemon was awesome when it started even though it made me a social reject (hey i can't help it) but I completed two pokedexes on Red and Blue. Yup since no one played around here besides me I traded with myself and completed my pokedexes which was great fun. I spent close to 300 hours between both games. Of course I was upset there was only one save spot, so in total I've wasted close to 1000 hours on the original generation of the games and Stadium 1. Moving on to the Gold/Silver, I was wowed by the awesome internal clock system, night/day rocked. Plus an extra 100 Pokemon I was amazed., I spent probably twice as much time with G/S and Stadium 2. I was active on at least 7 pokemon communities at this time. I neved did complete all of Stadium 2 but thats because the challenge cup kept screwing me over in round 2. Ruby/Sapphire, well I only ever bought Sapphire, I still have never finished it, namely I found it as a let down as opposed to an improvement. No more night/day ugh. I swear I will finish it someday. I've thought about getting Leaf Green here and there but I haven't.

    MY first hands experience with Diamond however, shows me that maybe finally Game Freak after a lackluster Advance generation, willcome up with descent DS games. Heck I'm even excited for the Wii Stadium type game. Diamond/Pearl seem to return to those glorious years of my past. For some reason I lvoed the enjoyment of the 10 minutes I spent kneeling down playing Diamond at walmart, so much I now will get it at launch.

    But as a whole Pokemon has been downgrading, since Gold/Silver, disappointment after disappointment, The on-rails experience with Colosseum and gale of darkness uck. I really do hope they make a new Pokemon Snap though, I loved that game.
  23. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    I swear it, whenever I hear people talking about the greatness of GS I just can't understand it. I'm sure I've mentioned my experiences with it before - possibly in this same topic - but I didn't finish Gold for several months after getting it. Four months to be exact. It wasn't because it was tough or I was spending extra time on it, either... I literally stopped playing Pokemon for a good three months and started losing interest.

    To this day I'm not 100% sure what did it. The Anime in Johto was lacking, the wowzing effects of Day/Night hadn't done it for me, I didn't enjoy the new Pokemon as much, and Kanto was horrendously done. Plus, since the game had diverging paths - which, generally, would seem like a good thing in most RPGs - you were stuck battling weak Pokemon for quite a stretch throughout the game. It was hard as heck to level up in it.

    I don't just say I like R/S more to go against the flow... I really did not care for gen 2 much. If it hadn't been for Crystal adding a few key things to the gaming series - like the female player character - I may never have actually given it the time of day =/
  24. Well, I guess I did have more fun as a little kid playing my Blue and my bros Red and later on Yellow than I did Ruby and Sapphire. The games are kind of going downhill. Ruby/Sapphire was fun, just not as enjoyable as it's predacesors (SP?) I thought and still think Silver was the best thing to happen to Pokemon. It (To me) had the best Pokemon, and was the darkest of all the Pokemon games. It had a night time. The pokedex was black and all these things. It even introduced Dark type Pokemon and some of the best Pokemon like Tyranitar and Umbreon and of course, Noctowl. Since then I found the other Pokemon games, mediocre. But I'm still a Hardcore fan and will never give up on the series. I think Pearl will knock Blue version back to 3rd place and Pearl will be 2nd. I can't wait for Pearl but, I don't think it has what it takes to stand up to Silver. Now, if you're talking sales, then it's growing. In Japan Pearl/Diamond (Specificallt Diamond) got the most Pokemon sales ever for a Pokemon game. (That's what I beleive I read, my memory isn't that great)
  25. Alright I will break down Generation 2 in how it made the games better...

    1. it added hold items
    2. added two new types
    3. 100 Unique new Pokemon (so many in R/S seemed like new versions of old R/B Pokemon)
    4. Introduced the Happiness system
    5. Made Waterfall an HM as opposed to being only learned by Goldeen/Seaking in R/B/Y
    6. Breeding and Egg Moves
    7. Shinies
    8. Special day Pokemon (trend returned again in D/P)
    9. Swarms
    10. Pseudo-Continuation of R/B
    11. Team Rocket
    12. Move Deleter
    13. Move Tutors (Crystal only)

    Well there's my top reasons of why and the fac t I love the 100 new Pokemon more than any of Gen 3's introductions. Also Heracross= Dark/Mewtwo killer. Also G/S split Special into two distinct stats, special attack and special defense. So my main question is what did the alter gens do? Also I will say I have more hours racked in G/S than any of the other sequels, well D/P currently is eating up a load of time.
  26. Is it okay if I reply to this again? :) (Edit: oooh...my uberlong necro-post just pushed the topic to the second page...mwahaha!)

    Anyway, I should really be studying for my acids/bases chemistry test...but hey, DP is bothering me (again...it does this multiple times per day) and I need to kill it in some form or another so I can get back to schoolwork (hey, I'll be up late ANYWAY... ::) )).

    So yar. In case anybody didn't notice (I know Linky-chu doesn't fall int his category, hehe), I kinda fell victim to hype...it sucks. I reallyreallyreally wanted to like DP...anyway, here's my new view on the growing/falling Pokemon dynasty debate:

    My opinion has not changed. The Pokemon franchise itself is growing. I don't know if it's growing at the same rate it was before, or if it has slowed or quickened, but it is definitely growing.

    However, I think it also depends on the person you're asking. People's likes and dislikes fluctuate as they go through life, so there will almost always be a fall in interesting Pokemon with one person. It just may take awhile for some of the more diehard fans (or, as we all hope, it never happens at all).

    As for me, well, y'all should know how I felt about the first three generations - they just got better. Granted, I think I still like the second generation games better than the third (spin-offs don't count), but I still think it grew between the second and third generations. And I definitely don't find the first generation better than the second. The first generation was wonderful, the second generation made a sequel that, in my opinion, was the best set of three games I have ever played, and the third generation took some of those ideas and ran with them (while ditching some things I liked...). Then the third generation surprised us (well, it surprised me) with remakes! Amazing...definitely a sign of growth when you can revisit the past and improve on it without really changing it.

    Now then, on to the fourth generation, now that I've had a bit of time to play it...

    As for DP, well, I'm still kind of hype-victim'd. I ended up spoiling a lot of information about the games thanks to the intarwebz, and that kind of made the experience...not-so-good. I also got a Japanese Diamond in February. While I don't think it was a very bad idea, I did kind of lose interest after awhile. However, I was almost obsessed with the game up until around the second badge. I did take it on a trip, and it and Emerald definitely made some good memories. Not as much as Crystal did, but oh well. It was fun anyway. :)

    However, now I've grown a bit bitter. I think it's just me - these games are AWESOME (if I take a step back and look at them without any prior opinions), and I definitely think they "grew". Nevertheless, I just can't get into them right now. My English Pearl is currently situated in Oreburgh (I think...it's Kurogane City) with only one Pokemon, my Moferno. (Moferno has a strange blue mask-thing...O_o) I've also lost any interest in continuing my game in my Japanese Diamond (I'm in Zui Town - dunno the English name - with two badges). I think the hype kind of destroyed the fun for me...plus, I am rather disappointed with the number of Sinnoh-native Pokemon. It seems abnormally low...couldn't they have put in some of the Pokemon with new evolutions earlier, at least?

    There are, however, two signs of REAL growth (or, at least, hopeful growth). One not-really-related thing is a spinoff game that I am simply in love with. This game is Pokemon Ranger, one of the best games (if not the best) I've played in the last year or so. I hadn't had much experience with spinoffs, since I've only ever owned the handhelds, so I was impressed when there were a bunch of spinoffs released on the DS, a system I was sure to get. I'd never really gotten extremely captivated by a spinoff, seeing as the only two I'd ever played on my own were TCG and the original Pinball, so I wasn't so effected by hype (since my hopes were not so high). Then, when I got a DS, I had to get a game to go with it. I wanted Mystery Dungeon, since I figured I should get one that was an RPG (putting it over Trozei), and I wanted to save the "better one" for later (putting it as a "higher priority" than Ranger, the one I wanted). However, I did not see PMD Blue when I was at the store...just Ranger and Trozei.

    So duh, I got Ranger over trozei. ::)

    From the second I turned it on, I was hooked. The graphics were gorgeous, I loved the little region to pieces, the characters were cool, the music was fun (I cannot STAND it when any background music is bad), the storyline was fresh and creative, and the style of gameplay used the stylus to the fullest. My only complaint was that it was so short!

    I think Ranger is definitely a sign of MAJOR growth from Pokemon. I'd lump it together with the fourth generation - maybe as a prequel or something - so it gives me hope for the rest of the foursies. The fact that it stole the spotlight without much me-hype and turned out to be a wonderful game just...was cool. Reminded me of playing some earlier games for the first time...it was blindingly new-shiny. :)

    That being said...I have some hope for DP on its own merits. Not all of the blame on my play-apathy for these games can be placed on dislike - I just don't have a lot of time right now (I expect this situation to at least get a bit better once summer vacation begins). However, Pearl has been nagging and tugging on my brain cells...I kind of want to play it again. I'm thinking maybe the "anti-hype" I've been feeling is sort of a natural solution to the hype I've been suffering from. I don't want to play it, which makes me want to play it...and actually have fun with it. I also plan to catch at least...um...Shellos? (Karanakushi), since I saw it for the first time when I was playing Diamond, and had no clue what it was. It was so cool! Ditto to...that...mirror-gong thing which I saw briefly in a trainer-battle...but Shellos (?)/Karanakushi takes first priority. It's much more very special-er. ;)

    So maybe this is a sign that the downward spiral I'd seen in the me-Pokemon growth is really turning back upwards? I'm actually a pretty optimistic person (OMG NO RLY????!!!11!!one1!), so that's good. I may edit in a later opinion (dunno if it will be worthy of a necromancy-type post) after I really sit down and play.

    So yeah, long post...but overall opinion:

    Pokemon is growing. Am I growing in regards to Pokemon? 50-50 chance...but I'm expecting an upswing in growth relatively soon. It just may take a month or so. :)
  27. Personally, I loved Blue, then adored Silver, especially the fact that I could return to Kanto and see what had changed (Cinnabar Island being no more for example)

    When it came around to Saphire, I gave it a miss and waited for the 'third' that's always released (Yellow, Crystal, Emerald), and I really struggled to get into Emerald. The prospect of filling the PokéDex seemed more impossible than ever before and I never really took a shine to the new Pokémon. I also found the start of the game to be rather slow and more or less forced myself through it.

    I was disappointed that the day and night system was gone, and never warmed to the characters or the new critters.

    I'm hoping when I get Diamond tomorrow I won't get the same feeling. And it's not that I grew out of it, I love playing Fire Red.
    #27 Sakamoto, May 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014
  28. It's almost as if you wrote that for me. A lot of the arguments here were based on the notion that the Pokemon series has declined as a whole. On this point, I disagree. The addition of EV's, more complicated algorithms, breeding, steel and dark, and of course: more Pokemon were a good thing. My belief is that Pokemon has become less fun on the account of the boring storylines, addition of alphabet Pokemon, and some very horrid Pokemon themselves (I reference Bidoof for this point).

    Kanto was just laid out better. That was obvious when I forced myself to play through Sapphire and Emerald but had no problem completing both FireRed and LeafGreen (and I still restart them constantly). They had better maps and an overall better feel. I'm an RPG gamer and I rarely play through an RPG if I dislike the world. R/S/E and D/P had really bad maps.

    I bought Pokemon Pearl and I'm currently on the set of islands you gain access to after defeating the Elite 4 (or should I say Elite 5... -.-). I hated the lack of Fire type Pokemon, despised all music within this game, ignored 80% of the Pokemon I encountered, and blew off caring about the story. So for the whole game I tried my hardest to get Pokemon that didn't suck and level grind. That's all this game was good for. The sprites had bigger heads than even the previous set of games and the 3D was totally unnecessary. In fact, on the edges of the 3D tiles they were so sharp and jagged, I constantly wished they were smooth sprites instead. Then again, I'm more of a 2D gamer than a 3D. I could rant on all day about D/P but I would be digressing to the point of absurdity.

    I'm not one of those people who can't accept change. But I am the type of person who recognizes that 'change' isn't simply that; there's good and bad change. Some of the things in this series changed for the better, some...okay a lot, for the worse.
    #28 Trevlac, May 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014
  29. I remember back when the Pokemon games were just coming out, Red and Blue for the Gameboy........ It was a big deal to have one of them in my school because the damn thing was so hard to get
  30. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    Funny. For me, Diamond is basically what Gold and Silver should've been. It's the first Pokemon game since the original that I really loved - region map, story, and all. I think, the only thing I would've changed is added a Battle Frontier-like place to it because I can't stand the tedium of Battle Tower, but I don't hold it against the games for not including it.

    Heh. I know everyone has just reason for how they feel on these new games - minus bandwagon morons or shit disturbers - and you'll never find a game that everyone loves. Still... it's always interesting reading opinions that are completely opposite of my own.

  31. I live in Toronto, which pretty much is the center of Canada.... EVERY kid wanted a Pokemon game, and I'm assuming EB/whoever didn't know if Pokemon was going to be a big seller so they didn't buy many.

    I also remember the day I got Pokemon blue, I was suddenly "sick" the next day of school...... Good times.
  32. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    I think I just took my copy of Red to school with me. Good times indeed.

    And yeah... Toronto is the one place in Canada I could see them opening a Pokemon Center/Nintendo World (whatever the place is called now). You can usually find a lot of random Pokemon stuff at the Asian malls, too. But I'm just rambling here...
  33. The random Asian stores sell things that LOOK like Pokemon, but really are just cheap knockoffs. Besides, I don't do stuffed Pokemon toys.
  34. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    And that's what I mean, yeah - that and action figures of sorts. But actually, the stuff I buy is boxed from Japan, or its out of the toonie machines, so it's as authentic as it gets. You just gotta know where to look, what to look for, and what not to buy. Even then, if a bootleg is so outrageous - like the Digimon/Pokemon fan I once found - I'll buy it just for the hell of it =)
  35. Well, I'm not rolling in the Benjamin's, so I need to save money for things such as school, and Fire Emblem 10 whenever the hell those ...*Insert any number of curse words here* at IS release it in North America.
  36. Well, here's my take on it. Not sure how long it's going to be...

    To start off with, I do agree the series has changed quite a bit from the times of RBY, for better and for worse. I haven't got DP yet, though I intend to sometime this summer. It'd be sacrilege if I didn't! :p But still, things have changed. I think I'll just go through each generation one by one.

    Generation One: Possibly my favorite, possibly my second-favorite. It's the gen that got me into Pokemon, and for that it will always have a special place in my heart. The plot/story was fresh and imaginative, something no one had ever seen before, and it did prove a challenge for most gamers of the time. It was something you could really get into without much trouble. I remember more than one night when I forsook sleep entirely so I could huddle under my blankets with a flashlight, the sound turned off as I played all night. Sometimes I was caught. Other times I wasn't, and it just added to the novelty--I had never dared to stay up all night before, lest my parents catch me at it. It was just a very special gen for me.

    Generation Two: As with Gen One, possibly my favorite, possibly my second-favorite. I can never decide which one I like better. As has been previously stated, it brought the whole, "OMG, Pokemon sequel, Whooo! *Celebrates loudly*" feel to the series. It was special because it was the first sequel to Pokemon, the first time we stepped outside of Kanto into a bigger, more diverse world. It introduced the days of the week, time, night/day, and what types of Pokemon come out when. It added more challenge to the series, adding a further level of difficulty to it. Swarms were introduced, as was breeding (miracles!!! *Hugs her horde of Eevees*), and the idea of HMs being deletable was just as miraculous as breeding. The Elite Four/Five wasn't as tough as it was in Kanto, true, but that's because you continue on to Kanto and battle for more badges. That's another thing: you get to see the setting for the good old games in a brand new perspective, new graphics; the gyms were tougher than before, things had changed (Cinnabar and Lavender's tower, for instance). Pokemon who evolved with Stones were now more rare than before, as you had a limited number of stones. It made you really think about what Pokemon you were evolving, which ones you chose. It added a new novelty to the games that hadn't been present in RBY, no matter how refreshing those games themselves were.

    Generation Three: I didn't mind this generation. The beginning did seem sort of forced, but I pushed past that and came to adore the Hoenn region. The Contests were fabulous (Gosh, I spent so many hours on those!) and the story concerning Team Magma/Aqua was new and rather creative. The Battle Tower was interesting, and I enjoyed the Braille puzzles a lot. I also enjoyed the berry system, and the fact that you could dive and explore underwater. The gyms weren't quite as tough as previous installments, but they didn't have to be to capture your attention. There was just so much going on other than that, that there wasn't really a dull moment for me. True, the leveling system sucked big time (I still don't have a Pokemon above level 60 in those games) but it was fun and interesting nonetheless.

    Well, there's my rant...
  37. My view on the series anyway (from my perspective,dont take it to heart)

    Game series went up in G/S/C (the series had more room to expand on,and was still fairly popular)

    Game Series went down R/S/E (somthing just felt off about this game)

    Game series went up in FR/LG (The new additions to an already great game helped old fans become attached to the series again IMO,also things like vs seeker made the game go MUCH smoother)

    Games Series went up in D/P (The new features were amazing,and it took many things that were good in FR/LG and R/S/E and brought them here.It was the best of both worlds and then some)

    I think it'll remain topsy turvy,with no clear view of how it will end.Its a mascot game now of nintendo,i think its here to stay.It'll have its bad times but it always comes back,like sonic and mario

    EDIT:Sakamoto's statements up top really fit a lot of my feelings on the game series
  38. In my opinion the dark age for pokemon was in between G/S/C and R/S/E
    between thos games i thought pokemon would end because Gold and silver weren't all that good
    they're my least favorite out of the whole series
    the only thing that helped it through were probably the cards and movie
    and now pokemon popularity is going up and Pokémon Battle Revolution is coming out and that could change the popularity streak in either direction
    #38 00wolf, May 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014
  39. I personly think its growing the graphics have improved and in addition they've made the games a little longer which i'm extremly happy about..

    Im pretty sure they'll make remakes of silver, gold, and crystal if they made remakes of the originals there bound to make remakes of those

    think about it

  40. I agree. Once I tasted the improved graphics and the new features of G/S/C I never looked back. I was breeding like crazy and I can't imagine life without Pokemon genders. When I poked around in Yellow, you almost had to do every little thing manually. You had to open the menu every single time you wanted to use an HM move or ride your bike. It was annoying. And it wasn't just the big things that made the second generation better. Just the little tweaks here and there.

    As a matter of fact, if it weren't for G/S/C, I wouldn't be the Pokemon fan I am today. R/S/E just improved upon the things that were introduced in G/S/C. If they hadn't introduced FireRed and LeafGreen, I wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to play through Kanto because I would never play the originals. And I was glad to finally get some of the Pokemon from the first generation. I think the games improve every generation.

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