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Pokemon Anime
- Thread starter Keleri
- Start date
I beg to differ on the lack of character growth. If you look at Ash now, you can tell that he's not the impatient, headstrong little n00b he was back in Kanto. In fact, a lot of his battles as of late rely on some form of strategy. And even thoough he relies heavily on that one strategy for the entire course of battle, at least he bohters to think about it and train his Pokemon to become accustomed to his tactics.
The fact of the matter is that Ash, Brock and Team Rocket aren't the real stars of the anime; It's the Pokemon. I imagine people tune into the anime or watch episodes of it just to see their favorite Pokemon in action, using their attacks, having actual personalities and generally being more than scraps of data. Sure the blasting off and the rigorous journey and the episode outline got predictable, but you'll only grow bored or undermine the series if you look at it as a whole. Those who do watch it, watch it for the individual episodes and the Pokemon involved with them. And by watching each episode, you will actually notice there is some miniscule form of character development still happening in the series.
That and Team Rocket's onssessive need to say their motto in every episode is just humorous in itself.
The fact of the matter is that Ash, Brock and Team Rocket aren't the real stars of the anime; It's the Pokemon. I imagine people tune into the anime or watch episodes of it just to see their favorite Pokemon in action, using their attacks, having actual personalities and generally being more than scraps of data. Sure the blasting off and the rigorous journey and the episode outline got predictable, but you'll only grow bored or undermine the series if you look at it as a whole. Those who do watch it, watch it for the individual episodes and the Pokemon involved with them. And by watching each episode, you will actually notice there is some miniscule form of character development still happening in the series.
That and Team Rocket's onssessive need to say their motto in every episode is just humorous in itself.
Robo-Ky said:
Ditto to that. The series actually does have character development, it's just usually much more subtle than other Anime series (which is to be expected considering the target audience). Outside of Ash himself, anyone who hasn't noticed Dawn/Hikari's development over the course of the Sinnoh saga probably either dislikes her or missed all of her important episodes. It was certainly there, and I love the silly git for it. XD
But still, RX is right about watching for the Pokemon. I'll always keep watching the series because I love seeing the new Pokemon every generation come alive within it. Even the most bland episodes have some redeeming qualities if a Pokemon that interests me shows up. Some of the battles are really rather awesome these days, too, and I certainly look forward to watching them. Beyond simply being entertaining, it's great seeing the various strategies and how the animators imagine certain attacks in their own minds.
However, to be perfectly honest, I'd be lying if I said I didn't watch for the human characters, too. I love Ash and the TR trio, and typically the other supporting characters are enjoyable to me as well. Paul, Zoe, and Barry, for instance, quickly became some of my favourite Pokemon characters, and I get excited each time any of 'em crop up in the show. If anything, I just love seeing their relationships/interactions with the main cast because the dynamics between 'em all are fun.
Yeah, maybe it seems rather repetitive that Brock, Ash and TR have been taken from Anime series to Anime series constantly with traces of changes in the cast. But, sometimes repetition is a good thing.
I agree that Ash is really not the incompetent, rash and very...mild-minded little kid we saw 11 years ago. He has grown 6 years, to the age of 16, by the Diamond and Pearl Saga. He really has grown more mature (in the balance-minded and simple ways, not like relationship wise...PFFT!) than he was before.
I also agree with the fact that he has formulated and vitalized some pretty unique and elaborate plans to configure a sound strategy to defeat the opponent. Very interesting, in fact, that Ash has grown into this, when it seemed before that the anime would only stretch a year and a half...Where Ash would probably die in the end or some crap...I don't know.
But, anyway, going back to the seemingly impatient sounding repetition of the 4th Anime Series, Black and White (And yes, that is the fourth, because Johto and the Orange Islands were all one anime...or was it Kanto and the Orange Islands, then Johto?) is bringing back Ash and Team Rocket. So what? We have grown to like Ash, and he will probably be even more developed at 18 (which is about the age he should be, because he's been on the DP journey for two years *yes, they stated this IN THE ANIME! In that episode that didn't air in U.S.*). So, why should we not like the anime because they've brought back old characters? Other anime that have been dried to the bone, like Dragonball Z, have kept old characters for however long they've been running (OMG, KILL THAT ANIME NOW) and they haven't been thrown aside! (Yeah, people still like it...T_T)
So, all in all, I have kept with the anime because they HAVE HAD character development and overall plotline recreatinons. I probably won't stop watching the anime until they are in their 7th Generation (Yeah, it'll come -_-)
I agree that Ash is really not the incompetent, rash and very...mild-minded little kid we saw 11 years ago. He has grown 6 years, to the age of 16, by the Diamond and Pearl Saga. He really has grown more mature (in the balance-minded and simple ways, not like relationship wise...PFFT!) than he was before.
I also agree with the fact that he has formulated and vitalized some pretty unique and elaborate plans to configure a sound strategy to defeat the opponent. Very interesting, in fact, that Ash has grown into this, when it seemed before that the anime would only stretch a year and a half...Where Ash would probably die in the end or some crap...I don't know.
But, anyway, going back to the seemingly impatient sounding repetition of the 4th Anime Series, Black and White (And yes, that is the fourth, because Johto and the Orange Islands were all one anime...or was it Kanto and the Orange Islands, then Johto?) is bringing back Ash and Team Rocket. So what? We have grown to like Ash, and he will probably be even more developed at 18 (which is about the age he should be, because he's been on the DP journey for two years *yes, they stated this IN THE ANIME! In that episode that didn't air in U.S.*). So, why should we not like the anime because they've brought back old characters? Other anime that have been dried to the bone, like Dragonball Z, have kept old characters for however long they've been running (OMG, KILL THAT ANIME NOW) and they haven't been thrown aside! (Yeah, people still like it...T_T)
So, all in all, I have kept with the anime because they HAVE HAD character development and overall plotline recreatinons. I probably won't stop watching the anime until they are in their 7th Generation (Yeah, it'll come -_-)
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I don't really watch it so much anymore, frankly because I've grown tired of Ash. Yes yes I know he's matured....sorta... and He does seem to be battling more efficiently (And I will credit him for evolving more pokemon as of recently), but he's not really going anywhere (figure of speach of course) with his "career". Back in the Johto series I used to think that Ash couldn't lose, I mean he was at one point the newly crowned champ of the Orange Islands, but now I've been corrected, seeing that he's lost waaaaay too much to be considered a "champion" again. I may watch it occassionally just to see things like evolutions or the movies, and I've made it a habit to tune in to the League battles (mainly because I wanna see who's the person to beat him (Richie, Harrison, Tyson),which is odd considering all of his new "friends" he meets during the league always beat him.) I;m placing my bets on Paul beating him, either that or some new "freind" will beat him with a Isshu pokemon. I may tune in to see the opening of new seasons as well, but not too far.
Now just to be clear, this is my opinion that he sucks. It doesn't mean its a fact, but its just my opinion, so no flaming.
Now just to be clear, this is my opinion that he sucks. It doesn't mean its a fact, but its just my opinion, so no flaming.
Linkachu said:
Lol, I heard that XD But, no...Dawn sucks and no-one would ever bring her back...*shiver*
Two words: Ash's cap.
The only thing that keeps me watch this tedious and repetitive anime is so that I can follow the developement of Ash's cap. I mean, it's so thrilling! The way it keeps changing... Like, what symbol will it have next? What color will it be? Or... *gasp*... Maybe he'll eventually change it into a hat!
... Just kidding. There are a couple of things that keeps me wake up 06:50 every sunday morning to watch it.
1. Nostalgia: I've been following this show since I was 9 years old (I'm 19 now), and it's a part of my childhood I've decided to not let go of yet.
2. Old references: Just because I loved the first seasons as a kid, I always get super-duper-happy everytime I find something in the new seasons that's a reference to the old ones. Like when Ash visits his former Pokemon, have flashbacks, or people from his past shows up.
3. Pikachu: I'm waiting for an episode that will prove my theory that Pikachu is hiding some really bad ass powers... Remember why TeamRocket are hunting Pikachu in the first place? Meowth stated that Pikachu is unusually powerful*, and i'd like to see more proof of that.
And hey! After been training with the show's protagonist for 8(?) fricking years, he should have become the most powerful Pikachu in the world!
Lastly, I think it's interesting to see what new companions and Pokemon Ash gets in every season. =) And what personalities they will have. ^^
I also happen to like the swedish voice actor who voices James.
*EDIT: I've just find out that this was more obvious in the swedish dub, and might not be accurate for the english one. I don't know about the japanese though. ^^;
The only thing that keeps me watch this tedious and repetitive anime is so that I can follow the developement of Ash's cap. I mean, it's so thrilling! The way it keeps changing... Like, what symbol will it have next? What color will it be? Or... *gasp*... Maybe he'll eventually change it into a hat!
... Just kidding. There are a couple of things that keeps me wake up 06:50 every sunday morning to watch it.
1. Nostalgia: I've been following this show since I was 9 years old (I'm 19 now), and it's a part of my childhood I've decided to not let go of yet.
2. Old references: Just because I loved the first seasons as a kid, I always get super-duper-happy everytime I find something in the new seasons that's a reference to the old ones. Like when Ash visits his former Pokemon, have flashbacks, or people from his past shows up.
3. Pikachu: I'm waiting for an episode that will prove my theory that Pikachu is hiding some really bad ass powers... Remember why TeamRocket are hunting Pikachu in the first place? Meowth stated that Pikachu is unusually powerful*, and i'd like to see more proof of that.
And hey! After been training with the show's protagonist for 8(?) fricking years, he should have become the most powerful Pikachu in the world!
Lastly, I think it's interesting to see what new companions and Pokemon Ash gets in every season. =) And what personalities they will have. ^^
I also happen to like the swedish voice actor who voices James.
*EDIT: I've just find out that this was more obvious in the swedish dub, and might not be accurate for the english one. I don't know about the japanese though. ^^;
The fact is that since the beginning of the Diamond and Pearl series, the anime has made a massive leap in quality. The writing is actually pretty damned good now - with smart use of arcs, character development and a strong pacing that has ended the reign of fillers by even having non-badge/ribbon/leagues/etc episodes feature major character developments across the board.
It's very difficult to think of any genuine 100% filler eps from the past series, because most of them wound up affecting the characters one way or another that would continue onwards. Pokemon would evolve, 'characters of the day' would become recurring characters and storylines would continue through for months at a time - like Dawn's failing like a failz and her mini-depression that went along with it.
Ultimately, it's just not the same show any more, and it's been fantastic to watch the saga from beginning to what's now the beginning of its thrilling conclusion.
On a more shallow level, the battle are also always fantastic fun to watch. Especially the big ones.
It's very difficult to think of any genuine 100% filler eps from the past series, because most of them wound up affecting the characters one way or another that would continue onwards. Pokemon would evolve, 'characters of the day' would become recurring characters and storylines would continue through for months at a time - like Dawn's failing like a failz and her mini-depression that went along with it.
Ultimately, it's just not the same show any more, and it's been fantastic to watch the saga from beginning to what's now the beginning of its thrilling conclusion.
On a more shallow level, the battle are also always fantastic fun to watch. Especially the big ones.
I'm curious now that everyone seems to be saying that the battles are good-- really? I remember someone linking me to a (wait, I guess this was Hoenn-era) recent battle and going AMG IT WAZ SHO EPICZ and the animation was TERRRRRIBLE. Like, so slow and blocky, it ruined the "exciting" battle. Did the D/P era have an improvement in the animation as well?
It depends on what battle you saw. There have been some epic battles in every season, but there have been some stinkers too. I felt the final battle between Ash and his Sceptile and May and her Blaziken was extremely lackluster. That said, the Diamond and Pearl saga has featured some amazing battles. The full battle between Ash and Paul showed the quality and character development that the creators tried to put into the series. The Sinnoh Grand Festival battles are fantastically beautiful. The anime has come a long way and there is far less hax and silliness in the battles. As for the animation, yes, the quality has definitely improved. The Pokemon attacks and movements are more fluid than before.
I watched nearly the entire Hoenn saga, but I barely remember it because I found it so dull. Max didn't help either. You can say the Hoenn killed it for me because I barely watched Battle Frontier. I started watching in Diamond and Pearl again, and though I no longer watch it like I used to, that in no way discounts the fact that the quality has improved. I see conscious character development like I've never seen it before. I dislike Dawn yeah, but she matures throughout the season. Paul and Ash's rivalry has been the highlight of the saga for me because you can see the impact on both characters. I hope they continue this quality in the Black and White saga.
I watched nearly the entire Hoenn saga, but I barely remember it because I found it so dull. Max didn't help either. You can say the Hoenn killed it for me because I barely watched Battle Frontier. I started watching in Diamond and Pearl again, and though I no longer watch it like I used to, that in no way discounts the fact that the quality has improved. I see conscious character development like I've never seen it before. I dislike Dawn yeah, but she matures throughout the season. Paul and Ash's rivalry has been the highlight of the saga for me because you can see the impact on both characters. I hope they continue this quality in the Black and White saga.
The pokemon. Though I wish Turtwig didn't evolve to
and I guess the intense battles. I can't wait for Zoroark's movie!
Torterra
I hear a lot of people complaining about Brock nowadays, and I agree with the fact that he's been here too long. Either he toughens up and becomes a Trainer like Ash instead of a Breeder, or he goes back to Pewter Gym. Your choice, Nintendo and GameFreak.
I read on the site that the scenery of Phantom Champion Zoroark is actually based on the Netherlands! That's pretty awesome, I guess; I never expected it at least. Remember, when you see windmills, dikes and people smoking weed in the movie, well, there's Holland for ya!
I read on the site that the scenery of Phantom Champion Zoroark is actually based on the Netherlands! That's pretty awesome, I guess; I never expected it at least. Remember, when you see windmills, dikes and people smoking weed in the movie, well, there's Holland for ya!
What Alex said. The DP saga is PHENOMENALLY better in every way, even WITH Dawn as a character (yeah, I despise her still.) XP
As for the battles, I suppose it depends on the battle. It seems that when they're working on movies the animation takes a massive drop in quality. >> I will say that the battles in DP feel a lot more, shall I say... RPish than they used to be in he older sagas. More tactics and creative uses of attacks and general awesomeness. >>;
As for the battles, I suppose it depends on the battle. It seems that when they're working on movies the animation takes a massive drop in quality. >> I will say that the battles in DP feel a lot more, shall I say... RPish than they used to be in he older sagas. More tactics and creative uses of attacks and general awesomeness. >>;
Word of advice, most people think Brock is terrible in the DP saga.
Brock has basically hit absolute rock bottom in this series. He gets almost no episodes and hardly does anything but state the obvious. He has become an awful character, which is a shame because he used to be one of my favorites.
He only gets 3 Pokemon the entire arc and never captures anything new. The writers don't care about him.
Brock has basically hit absolute rock bottom in this series. He gets almost no episodes and hardly does anything but state the obvious. He has become an awful character, which is a shame because he used to be one of my favorites.
He only gets 3 Pokemon the entire arc and never captures anything new. The writers don't care about him.
precita said:
AFREAKINGmen! Thank you very much for pointing out the fact that Brock gets NO ATTENTION!
I mean, the last time he got REAL attention was in the Master Quest saga in the episode with the freaky Ninetails...Ew. Anyway, Brock is not talked about or shown to be the center of attention in any episodes!
Brock is amazing in character, but no-one acknowledges him! He's just a character to cook and take care of pokemon, and that really is all the writers/producers want him as. He's the researcher as well that goes 'Lady Gaga' (see what I did there? He goes Gaga over Ladies! Lady Gaga...Oh, nevermind -_-)
Brock FOREVER!
(Oh, AND his character is being dumped in Black and White. WHAT. THE. HELL!?
Brock used to be quite an awesome character. He was the smart one, the survival expert... and hornier than a herd of Rhyperior in heat, but yeah, everyone must have a comic weakness. Hell, take a look at Ash in the first few seasons and you'll see he WAS the comic weakness.
but over the years he turned to little more than a running gag and a vector for unnecessary plot exposition. Well, and a cook, but that's kinda typical.
Katie brought up a valid point when I talked to her about this, actually - the preliminary art for the Diamond and Pearl series only featured Ash, Dawn and Paul (and the starters). Everyone wondered where the hell is Brock... and he never left. Who knows. We may be seeing Brock in Best Wishes too... Although gods I hope he'll do something USEFUL this time. Or at least, that his freaking frog will evolve. I love Toxicroak. >>;
but over the years he turned to little more than a running gag and a vector for unnecessary plot exposition. Well, and a cook, but that's kinda typical.
Katie brought up a valid point when I talked to her about this, actually - the preliminary art for the Diamond and Pearl series only featured Ash, Dawn and Paul (and the starters). Everyone wondered where the hell is Brock... and he never left. Who knows. We may be seeing Brock in Best Wishes too... Although gods I hope he'll do something USEFUL this time. Or at least, that his freaking frog will evolve. I love Toxicroak. >>;
The problem with Brock is that he's just not that interesting any more. He doesn't have any real goal to aim towards like Ash and his female companion, so it's not as if they can justify spreading out screen time to him against screen time to the other 2 main characters. Thus, he becomes relegated to filler duty - and as I said before, in D/P, there really wasn't that many of them to get stuck with.
However, getting rid of him is no easy task. As a kids' show, it needs a certain level of exposition to basically teach kids about the mechanics of Pokemon (which is why it seems almost essential for Ash to use one attack that won't have any effect when that situation comes up - to spell out that he can't use that type of move) and to explain all the crazy shit they make up. Brock fills that gap nicely and it's a job he's been doing from the beginning.
I imagine they're also probably too scared to take him away again given that the Japanese fans hated his replacement with Tracey - hence his quick return...
I've personally just given up on him. He's got his place, and that's where he's staying. If he comes back in Best Wishes, then I won't complain, but if he doesn't, I can't say I'd be all that bothered either.
However, getting rid of him is no easy task. As a kids' show, it needs a certain level of exposition to basically teach kids about the mechanics of Pokemon (which is why it seems almost essential for Ash to use one attack that won't have any effect when that situation comes up - to spell out that he can't use that type of move) and to explain all the crazy shit they make up. Brock fills that gap nicely and it's a job he's been doing from the beginning.
I imagine they're also probably too scared to take him away again given that the Japanese fans hated his replacement with Tracey - hence his quick return...
I've personally just given up on him. He's got his place, and that's where he's staying. If he comes back in Best Wishes, then I won't complain, but if he doesn't, I can't say I'd be all that bothered either.
Sir Red
Charms' Caped Crusader
For the most part with the anime, I only really watch the Movies and Gym battles/battles between Ash and Paul/Pokemon league battles. I really can't stand the filler episodes in between the important points anymore, so I only watch select episodes, really. I make it my business to watch every movie, though (except the Manaphy one -.-;; ), seeing as they just seem vastly superior to the anime in animation and battle sequences.
I can understand where Keleri is coming from when complaining about battles. A lot of times, and this was more apparent in the older episodes more so, they use the same long, boring looking animations for attacks so that they don't have to animate them more than once. It's just annoying to watch and takes away from the whole battle. =\
I can understand where Keleri is coming from when complaining about battles. A lot of times, and this was more apparent in the older episodes more so, they use the same long, boring looking animations for attacks so that they don't have to animate them more than once. It's just annoying to watch and takes away from the whole battle. =\
Yeah Brock does need to evolve Toxicroak, but then he couldn't "correct" him by punching him anymore. Honestly, I can't stand him. All he does is state the obvious and make one LULZ moment that sorta died out long ago. Plus, he wants to be a breeder, so why doesn't he actually breed pokemon? Of course, I know theres more than just the obvious for that feild, but still, he's more of a "Pokemon Feeder" or "Pokemon Reader" that a "Pokemon Breeder" (Lulz, that rhymed XD). But they won't get rid of him, at least not for long. Here's my reason: Remember back in the Hoenn saga when he didn't appear for 3 episodes? I beleive he came back the 4th ep., but he came back. They said he wasn't there in the 1st 3 eps of "Best Wishes", well watch him come back, after some griping, on the 4th. And he'll probably come there by unusual means too (If I remember, he just happened to go to Hoenn and follow Ash's trail (blood hound much?), and He just happened to get a lift from a trucker, a random one at that (yeah, good lesson here, "As long as your wanting to find your friends, its okay to ride with strangers *2 thumbs up*)), and probably bring a pokemon that A. hasn't evolved (Croagunk, Happiny), B. Is small (see A), C. Evolves into some 5th gen pokemon, D. comes back by popular demand, or E. He just so happened to catch in the final eps of the last arc thats a 5th gen pokemon.
It is very sad to see Brock turn into such a tool. I liked Brock in the beginning when he actually was important to Character Development. And personally the one i really want to return is Misty. She was Ash's backbone!! She kicked his ass when he was down and pushed him to be great!! the episode when she came back, i was thrilled and hoped she would stay, but the writers jipped me and had her leave!!
I do also LOVE the battles!! They are always really cool to watch and i love the interesting strategies Ash comes up with. Like the battle with Fantina!! Having Pokemon break-dance was genius and really freaking funny to watch!! That has to be one of my favorite battle of the D/P saga. The fights with Paul are also really awesome.
Paul himself really forces Ash to grow up and learn how to battle strong harsh opponents like him. he like the antithesis of Ash. I hope they bring another one like him in the Black and White saga.
All in all, Pokemon itself has grown tremendously which is why i keep watching it. I also pride myself on having not missed a single Movie. XD
I do also LOVE the battles!! They are always really cool to watch and i love the interesting strategies Ash comes up with. Like the battle with Fantina!! Having Pokemon break-dance was genius and really freaking funny to watch!! That has to be one of my favorite battle of the D/P saga. The fights with Paul are also really awesome.
Paul himself really forces Ash to grow up and learn how to battle strong harsh opponents like him. he like the antithesis of Ash. I hope they bring another one like him in the Black and White saga.
All in all, Pokemon itself has grown tremendously which is why i keep watching it. I also pride myself on having not missed a single Movie. XD
Master_of_Ghosts said:
Misty was just as much background material as Brock was, especially during the Johto arc where she hardly did anything. She hardly ever battled and basically bombed almost all her battles, when it wasn't Psyduck popping out. I honestly don't think Misty ever had a single epic battle in the show.
I don't think the writers care about Misty at all anymore, to be honest. DP is ending and she didn't get a single appearance, and she might not appear at Pallet Town either.
Most fans didn't like Misty in the Johto arc, I'm not surprised they pretty much abandoned her like they did to Tracey.
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