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XY/ORAS Singles Pokebank OU Phione Team

Discussion in 'The Doctor's Clinic' started by Silverangel, Dec 6, 2013.

  1. So I got a Phione in a trade once, and the first thing that came into my mind was that I could breed it and trade multiple Phione. I was also thinking that when I got Pokemon X version, I could Wonder Trade Phione and hopefully make some people happy. Then I wanted to use it in a competitive team. Problem is that Phione is very subpar, but I think I'm managing to put one together. This team is really just me planning for Gen 6, as I don't have all the Pokemon for it yet.


    Angol Aqua (Phione) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Hydration
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Knock Off
    - Heal Bell
    - Scald
    - U-Turn

    This time, Phione has a more supportive role. Scald is that haxy burn move. U-Turn can help keep momentum. Heal Bell removes status. Knock Off now has decent power and can remove items, which now makes it useful. I'm using a physically defensive set to tank physical hits.


    Bianca (Porygon-Z) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Adaptability
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Tri-Attack
    - Dark Pulse
    - Nasty Plot
    - Agility

    Bianca the Porygon-Z is my set-up sweeper here. With Steel types no longer resisting Dark type attacks, I can afford to run a Nasty Plot + Agility set. Basically, if I need to bash down walls, I use Nasty Plot. If I need to outspeed something, I use Agility. Nasty Plot allows me to boost to ridiculous levels of special attack along with a base 160 attack. With this, I can more often than not destroy a lot of things. However, there are still Pokemon that resist this type combination, such as Tyranitar, Bisharp, Terrakion, and Lucario. Oh wait, two of them are outright beaten by my next Pokemon, and all of them are weak to fighting type moves lol.


    Leafa (Virizion) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Leaf Blade
    - Sacred Sword
    - Stone Edge
    - Substitute

    A Grass/Fighting combination resist the EdgeQuake combination, one reason why I chose Ashe for this team. Ashe also defeats Tyranitar and Bisharp, helping Bianca sweep more easily. Ashe's typing and high natural special defense also ensure that she can wall Rotom-W, provided that it doesn't use Will-o-wisp or Thunder Wave on the switch-in. Leaf Blade and Sacred Sword are the preferred STABs here. Stone Edge hits many fire types who would otherwise love to switch in, especially Charizard and Volcarona, who resist Ashe's STABs. Talonflame would also switch in, but that's why I have Substitute. Using Substitute when the opponent switches out practically guarantees me a free attack (provided I'm not facing Chandelure, Crobat, or Noivern). It's very useful against Talonflame, who I can then smash apart with Stone Edge as it breaks my sub.


    Sparky (Rotom-H) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Overheat
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-o-wisp

    Sparky resists the BoltBeam combination, making it already a very good Pokemon. Resistances to Talonflame's STABs and the new Fairy-type also helps. Thunderbolt and Overheat are the main STAB moves, and Volt Switch allows me to hit and switch into a counter. Will-o-wisp can help me cripple physical attackers.


    Aeris (Florges) (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flower Veil
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Moonblast
    - Aromatherapy / Toxic
    - Wish
    - Protect

    Yet another physical wall. Aeris the Florges has ridiculous special defense that puts Blissey to shame, so defense EVs are all that are needed. Wish/Protect are pretty obvious, and Moonblast is the preferred STAB of choice, as a base 112 special attack is not something to laugh at. Aromatherapy and Toxic are the moves to choose between in the last slot. Aromatherapy can remove all statuses from the team, while Toxic can help me stall out attackers. Later on, I put EVs in special attack to keep an offensive prescience.


    Bruce (Crobat) (M) @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 252 Spd / 248 HP / 8 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - Defog

    Crobat is really just to get off a speedy Defog that gets rid of hazards in a pinch. A high base 130 speed allows me to do that. Brave Bird is the STAB of choice, while the other attacking move is situational. Super Fang allows to me strip off half the health of a wall, Cross Poison is for fairies, and U-Turn is for a quick escape (and gives me VoltTurn). Roost is the move for healing. I later on switched the second move for Taunt to stop many pokemon that use status moves. I also switched EVs from attack to HP to tank hits better.


    Angol Aqua (Phione) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Hydration
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Knock Off
    - Heal Bell
    - Scald
    - U-Turn

    Bianca (Porygon-Z) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Adaptability
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Tri-Attack
    - Dark Pulse
    - Nasty Plot
    - Agility

    Leafa (Virizion) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Leaf Blade
    - Sacred Sword
    - Stone Edge
    - Substitute

    Sparky (Rotom-H) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Overheat
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-o-wisp

    Aeris (Florges) (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flower Veil
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Moonblast
    - Toxic
    - Wish
    - Protect

    Bruce (Crobat) (M) @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 248HP / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Haze
    - Roost
    - Defog

    So, what do you think? Manaphy can pretty much replace Phione, but I want to use Phione, so yeah...
     
    #1 Silverangel, Dec 6, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
  2. KoL

    KoL FPS Guy
    Staff Member Moderator

    Considering most places like to kick Manaphy upstairs into Ubers, Phione is not quite as replaceable as you think it is.

    - Personally, I feel that this kind of set on Phione is horribly outdated due to the prevalence of Taunt and a likely increase in the number of Poison-types we'll be seeing around (two of which will be Tentacruel and Venusaur most likely.) Instead, I'd give Phione a more support-oriented set focused on assisting teammates. Heal Bell and Knock Off can support your team and disrupt the opponent as well (although Heal Bell renders Hydration very pointless, not that Hydration is a particularly good ability anyway,) and you can spread status moves around with moves like Scald and Bounce as well. Phione is surprisingly versatile support-wise considering how small its movepool is, so make the most of that. Also, HP/Def training is best here.

    - Keep in mind that Virizion does not beat MegaLucario since MegaLucario is faster than it, and if MegaLucario has used Swords Dance at all it'll just as easily mow through Virizion as it would through Porygon-Z, and this does leave your entire team very vulnerable to MegaLucario if it is able to set up Swords Dance on you.

    - Since Phione kind-of has status moves and support whatnot covered already, Heat Rotom is free to focus more on doing damage if you want. Note also that if Phione is carrying Rain Dance, Heat Rotom will be somewhat disadvantaged by it if it is sent out while it is still raining.

    - Florges is not a better special wall than Blissey. The reason why Blissey tanks special attacks so well is because it has 714 HP at Lv.100, a stat Florges doesn't even come close to (hopefully this will better explain the importance of HP when it comes to training defensive stats.) Again, if Phione is focusing on support (which is literally all that it can do,) that frees up Florges to run a slightly more offensive set, although I'd still keep Wish/Protect since that combination is never worthless in a team composition if you can fit it in somewhere. You said yourself that Base 112 Sp.Attack is very good - so use it.

    - Crobat doesn't seem to be using its Attack stat very much with this set so you may as well dump those EVs into HP instead to give it some extra bulk along with its speed. Consider Taunt on Crobat as well since Taunt on a Base 130 Speed 'Mon is brutal for doing in stallers (much like your original Phione set, especially since Crobat is immune to Toxic.)

    Overall, besides the MegaLucario issue the one problem I can see here is a serious lack of physical offense presence on this team. If Virizion ever got picked off early in a match, your whole team would be at serious risk against anything particularly specially defensive, something which isn't helped by one such 'Mon, Tentacruel, resisting both of Virizion's STABs and even with training in offense Crobat really doesn't hit that hard. I can suggest running a Swords Dance set on Virizion to increase its physical damage output and add that presence to your team (Virizion does cause a lot of 'Mons to switch out from it, giving you that setup turn you need.) I like the idea of this team but I'd try tweaking the imbalance towards special moves a bit and focus the bulk of the status/support moves onto Phione to free up moveslots on your other team members.

    Finally, Defog on Crobat is no reason for running no entry hazards yourself.
     
  3. Okay, this really helps, thanks.

    About Phione, yeah, I see that it has quite a few useful moves, including Scald, Heal Bell, Knock Off, U-Turn, Icy Wind, and Bounce. I'm using a set of Scald, Heal Bell, Knock Off, and U-Turn right now (which I will edit into the main post).

    What you said about Virizion is true, it does not counter MegaLucario, though Lucario doesn't want to switch in on Virizion. But yeah, I pretty much die to this thing if it sets up Swords Dance on me. Also, Swords Dance Virizion is a good option for me to consider, but Substitute has been too useful for me to give up. A lot of the time I set up a sub and can nail many switch-ins with a coverage move. Until I'm sure that Swords Dance is the better option, I probably won't give up Substitute just yet.

    Since Phione has support moves covered, what move should Rotom-H run over Will-o-wisp? I'm kinda worried about losing Will-o-wisp, though, since it has been extremely useful in battles.

    Hazards have always been a problem for me. None of my current team members can learn hazards moves, and Defog and/or Rapid Spin support is needed to make switching less of a hassle. Any suggestions for team members that can fulfill this role? I'm thinking Excadrill (I don't want to use Forretress....). Excadrill may also be able to have a physical offensive prescience in my team. Question is whether to run bulky attacker or fast attacker.

    Baton Pass teams are also a bitch. I don't have any phazing moves or even Haze, and Taunt only lasts three turns. Any suggestions for this as well?
     
  4. KoL

    KoL FPS Guy
    Staff Member Moderator

    Excadrill can work quite nicely as a means of setting up hazards and providing a strong physical presence, but note that Excadrill isn't particularly amazing without sandstorm active, and Sand Stream was nerfed heavily this generation. Infernape is a potential option here too, since it provides good mixed wallbreaking ability on top of Stealth Rock setup too, there's quite a few options for Pokemon that fit the bill of "strong physical attacker that can set up hazards" so any one of them would probably fit in quite well here.

    Phazing moves aren't quite as reliable as revenge-kill moves for knocking out setup sweepers and it usually depends on who you find to be the worst offenders for setting up against and sweeping you. Moves like Mach Punch, Bullet Punch and ExtremeSpeed can stop sweepers in their tracks if they have low HP, and abilities like Prankster and Gale Wings can put an end to a sweep very quickly as well, so there's more than one way to force a sweeper off the field.

    As for Rotom, a Choice Specs/Scarf set with Trick on it might be worth a try to see how well it fits onto your team.
     
  5. Toastie

    Friend Code:
    0001-3399-8578
    I completely agree. Because Florges is so commonly used almost purely for support, the opponent often won't expect a more offensive set. I was so used to support Florges sets that I was once completely swept by a Florges that I allowed two Calm Minds. Incidentally, I'd recommend Calm Mind + Moonblast. If the opponent doesn't view your Florges as a threat, you can boost its already high Sp. Attack (not to mention its Sp. Defence) before they realise what you're going to do.
     
  6. Okay then, I might try a Bulky Calm Mind set for Florges (and maybe replace it with Sylveon for more bulk). However, recently, I've been more concerned with having a physical attacker and a Stealth Rock setter. The following Pokemon are ones I am either testing or considering:

    Ivory (Garchomp) (F) @ Yache Berry / Haban Berry / Focus Sash
    Ability: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Garchomp has great attack power and access to Stealth Rock. There isn't much to say about this set except for the item. Yache Berry allows me to tank a weaker or non-STAB Ice-type move, which is fairly common, seeing all the Hidden Power users. Haban Berry can surprise opposing Dragon types, and Focus Sash is a useful early-match item that guarantees me the chance to set up Stealth Rocks (though not very useful if I end up running Defog).

    Pheonix (Espeon) (F) @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Psyshock / Psychic
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Fighting]

    Assault Vest boosts Pheonix's special defense, allowing her to tank more special hits than normal. In this case, Magic Bounce is used over actual hazards because of the idea of reflecting hazards that the opponent uses. Pheonix's STAB is also super-effective on Venusaur and Tentacruel, both which would otherwise be nasty thorns to the team. Dazzling Gleam and Grass Knot are for extra coverage, allowing me to use another Hidden Power of choice other than Fighting (though that's still an option).


    Crobat has also been kinda useless to the team, as all he does is use Defog before getting KOed. I'm using a Scizor with the following set so far, but other suggestions would be nice:

    Kain (Scizor) (M) @ Scizorite
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-Turn
    - Roost
    - Defog
     

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