Just wondered why Shaymin, Cresselia and Regigigas are up there. (Not Regigigas so much, I can see the possibilities.)
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DPPt/HGSS [Old] Standard Battle Rules - The Default for all battles on Pokecharms
- Thread starter Doctor Oak
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LookOut4TheVatos
;D Good Set but i think heatran should be allowed in...but whatever i really don't care.
Um, I'm confused with something: say I want Mudkip, Charmander, and Turtwig on my team. Is that not allowed, because it states that the evolved forms are to be a limit of two per, or is it okay, because it does not say the first (or second, for that matter) forms of the starters have no limit?
Aye. While the final evolution stages are listed, they're solely there to represent the lines because - as Plapti said - most people don't use unevolved starter Pokemon in competitive battling (would you honestly battle with three starter basic forms against someone who uses six fully evolved Pokemon?).
Either way, for this set of rules, you can't use more than two starters of ANY stage.
Either way, for this set of rules, you can't use more than two starters of ANY stage.
Maybe...
[quote author=Linkachu link=topic=1989.msg42611#msg42611 date=1199036574]
Either way, for this set of rules, you can't use more than two starters of ANY stage.
[/quote]
Oh, okay. Thank you. I think I'll just be drawing up my own rules for battles once my Wifi starts working...stupid connection...
Oh Dear, that's most of my BR squad out the window...
I'd consider training a less cheap team then. 
i second that.people who use mostly (if not all) legendary pokemanz annoy the crap out of me. its like they aren't trying. :-\I'd consider training a less cheap team then.
Based on them - but most of the Pokemon restrictions are our own based on general consensus.
Speaking of which, all in favour of bumping Shaymin down from banned to restricted? If it winds up with a new form that breaks it, it might have to go back up to banned, but looking over it - it seems, possibly Seed Flare aside, to be no more broken than, say, Celebi or Manaphy.
Shaymin only has Seed Flare and Natural Cure going for it. Otherwise, it's not very outstanding. Manaphy has a great ability and great moves while Celebi has great walling capabilities, just a horrible type. Shaymin should be restricted. It has such a shallow movepool. Manaphy should be banned while Celebi should be restricted.
I don't really see Manaphy's breakage outside of a 2-2 situation, considering most of its moves are support moves and those that are not aren't all that powerful. Though I'll open that up to debate too.
With Rain Dance, Manaphy is immune to all status effects, even ones cause by itself. That includes Rest. Use Rest then get the same turn. Great wall. It may have average stats, but its got the movepool to boot. Since it has Tail Glow to boot (Like a Nasty Plot) and with Ice Beam, Surf and Grass Knot, it pretty much hits all types for at least neutral damage. On the cross side, it has a predictable movepool. Since Rain Dance is quite readily acccesible, Manaphy has an easy time getting the popular Rain Dance-Rest combo out.
Can more that obe pokemon hold a berry if they are diffrent berries?
Different berries count as different items - for rather obvious reasons.
You just can't, for example, have an Oran berry attached to two members of your team.
You just can't, for example, have an Oran berry attached to two members of your team.
Manaphy is considered an uber in standard OU play as well, so it kinda makes sense for it to be eating the ban sandwiches here too. Shaymin has uses regarding Aromatherapy, albeit not much else and he's hardly the best Aromatherapy user in the game *glares at Blissey.* I think Shaymin should be put in the restricted section and Manaphy should be banned in its place.
Banned, maybe, but restricted for sure. It has great walling capabilities, a reliable recovery in Wish, Serene Grace (Charge Beam is up there, along with Psychic), it has two (maybe three) strong STAB attacks, and has good defensive typing. Only thing letting it down is the Fire and Ground Weakness, but if it has other Pokemon that give it some support in taking that blow (Like Dragons who can take Fire moves and Flying types who don't take anything from EQ, or Water types...*glaring at Salamence and Ludicolo and Gyarados) That being said...Jirachi should be restricted...if not banned, but banning is a little much. But it does have the movepool and the ability to abuse Serene Grace.
If Jirachi's not on any list, it's probably 'cos I forgot about it. >_>
I'd agree with it being restricted.
Manaphy being banned completely surprises me, but I guess Phione is there to serve as a replacement for it in restricted play.
So, are we in general agreement that Manaphy should be banned and Shaymin and Jirachi should be restricted then?
I'd agree with it being restricted.
Manaphy being banned completely surprises me, but I guess Phione is there to serve as a replacement for it in restricted play.
So, are we in general agreement that Manaphy should be banned and Shaymin and Jirachi should be restricted then?
I agree, because unless someone has a Thunder pokemon or a pokemon that can change weather, Manaphy's is going to be a pain. Rest will be like recover.
Also, I agree with Shaymin's movepool. Only good thing is Seed Flare, but it doesn't learn it until lv 100 (correct me if I'm wrong). No clue about Jirachi.
Also, I agree with Shaymin's movepool. Only good thing is Seed Flare, but it doesn't learn it until lv 100 (correct me if I'm wrong). No clue about Jirachi.
Well, Phione has subpar stats, but has Hydration once again...I don't think it should be restricted It does lose some notable moves that only Manaphy gets as well. It could work its way down if it gets outclassed by the likes of Salamence and company.
But yes, Shaymin should be restricted, unless the new forme breaks it all over again. And Jirachi should be restricted. Also agreeing with Manaphy being banned from standard play.
But yes, Shaymin should be restricted, unless the new forme breaks it all over again. And Jirachi should be restricted. Also agreeing with Manaphy being banned from standard play.
Done.
Ruko
Bearded Trout Warrior
I don't think Wobbufet should be banned... or even restricted. Even if it is classed as an Uber elsewhere, they are really only a threat if you have a predictable team.
i.e. all of you pokemon only have attacking moves, or if each attacking pokemon you have uses only physical or only special attacks.
Get a toxic in after safeguard falls, before can be put back up, or maximize your attack. Wobbufet can't do anything as long as you don't use direct damaging attacks.
i.e. all of you pokemon only have attacking moves, or if each attacking pokemon you have uses only physical or only special attacks.
Get a toxic in after safeguard falls, before can be put back up, or maximize your attack. Wobbufet can't do anything as long as you don't use direct damaging attacks.
Lack of recovery moves and if you don't call the move right without Encore. And it can't take those hits to well either. With base of 58 in each Defense, it can't take hits that well. With repeated beatings, it'll go down. Also Wobbuffet has a huge problem to worry about now in D/P that it didn't before, U-Turn along with the already used Baton Pass.
A Pokemon with U-Turn has to switch out. It inflicts damage with a Super-Effective hit as well. The Pokemon that is sent out after should be one that can take the Counter or is immune to it (Ghost-types) and then finish off Wobbuffet. Same thing applies to Mirror Coat. Use Special Dark moves and since Mirror Coat is a Psychic move, Dark-types are immune to it. Baton Passing say, a Swords Dance or Nasty Plot also gives Wobbuffet to fear with a really bad Def/Sp.Def.
Phazing it away to get rid of it for a while or using the Shed Shell as well works to get away from Shadow Tag. Taunt also screws it over. Taunt it then use status moves on it while it can't use Safeguard or Encore.
And if a Ghost or Dark Pokemon is sent out and Wobbuffet wants to switch, Pursuit kills it. Or giving it an useless item with Trick (Mostly Choice Items to really dampen its use to only one Pokemon.
In short, it'll be a big surprise, but it won't last long.
A Pokemon with U-Turn has to switch out. It inflicts damage with a Super-Effective hit as well. The Pokemon that is sent out after should be one that can take the Counter or is immune to it (Ghost-types) and then finish off Wobbuffet. Same thing applies to Mirror Coat. Use Special Dark moves and since Mirror Coat is a Psychic move, Dark-types are immune to it. Baton Passing say, a Swords Dance or Nasty Plot also gives Wobbuffet to fear with a really bad Def/Sp.Def.
Phazing it away to get rid of it for a while or using the Shed Shell as well works to get away from Shadow Tag. Taunt also screws it over. Taunt it then use status moves on it while it can't use Safeguard or Encore.
And if a Ghost or Dark Pokemon is sent out and Wobbuffet wants to switch, Pursuit kills it. Or giving it an useless item with Trick (Mostly Choice Items to really dampen its use to only one Pokemon.
In short, it'll be a big surprise, but it won't last long.
Wobbufet got "ubered" 'cos it was broken in Gen III. Wobbuffet vs Wobbuffet ended the game in a stalemate because of their abilities. This time, their abilities except Wobbuffet and thus there is no issue any longer. Wobby can be tough, but nothing like an Uber.
Just thought I'd brush up my knowledge of these rules, since my competitive team is almost ready and I'm glad I did.
I'm not to sure I agree with Eevee's evolutions being counted in the 'No more than one Pokemon of each species on a team' rule. Each one is completely different from the other. I can understand not having two of most species - like Gible and Garchomp because their better stats and movepools will be similar. A Jolteon and Umbreon are completely different, in stats, type and moves, as are all the other evolutions. I don't think they should count...
Meh. I'll just have to state that I use two Eevee evolutions, on occasion three, in my battle thread when I start it.
I'm not to sure I agree with Eevee's evolutions being counted in the 'No more than one Pokemon of each species on a team' rule. Each one is completely different from the other. I can understand not having two of most species - like Gible and Garchomp because their better stats and movepools will be similar. A Jolteon and Umbreon are completely different, in stats, type and moves, as are all the other evolutions. I don't think they should count...
Meh. I'll just have to state that I use two Eevee evolutions, on occasion three, in my battle thread when I start it.
I see the Eevee evolutions similar to the starter issue. They might be different in final forum, but an Eevee evo is still an Eevee evo. They're abused to death, and over time I've gotten tired of seeing teams clogged with them. Mind you, I love to train/battle with some of the things, but I still appreciate a rule stopping people from abusing them too badly. Makes things a bit more interesting.
I agree. If someone goes into battle with 6 eevee evos, the battle might not be as lively if they use, lets say, a Torkoal.
In my opinion, facing a less used pokemon would make things a LOT more interesting than battling an overused one.
In my opinion, facing a less used pokemon would make things a LOT more interesting than battling an overused one.
I can see that point.
The competitive team I'm finalising involves ten pokemon that I'll change between. My main team line up however contains both Espeon and Umbreon, just because they work so well together and complement each other really well. My main purpose for training them was for double battling together... oh well
Vaporeon is my substitute for Umbreon sometimes, if I want more special wall than defense. I can certainly see what you mean, though maybe as with the starter rule, two Eevee evos could be acceptable. It would still prevent Eevee dominated teams, but allow for the differences.
That said, the Pokecharms battle rules do make a lot of sense and obviously a lot of thought has gone into them. Hopefully people will allow my Eevee combo without too much trouble being caused ^^
I didn't think Eevee Evolutions were overused, not that much anyway XD
Guess I have some research to do before I set up my battle thread
I agree the eeveevo's are way too diffrent to count for this rule. No 2 work the same usually so even though I face say an umbreon and a flareon I dont feel "abused" I mean they are built diffrently and are not the same pokemon.
I can understand why some people would prefer not facing popular pokemon but no matter what there are pokemon that you will see more then once and thats normal. It's kinda what battling is about for most people. Working out strategies to beat the pokemon you know are coming up.
I can understand why some people would prefer not facing popular pokemon but no matter what there are pokemon that you will see more then once and thats normal. It's kinda what battling is about for most people. Working out strategies to beat the pokemon you know are coming up.
Strategies around beating the Eevee evos isn't the issue whatsoever here. Redundancy is.
I could possibly go with seeing two Eevee evos per team, but no more. It's one thing to make a fun "All Eevee Evos!" team, but people really can do better when it comes to creativity >_>
In the end, the 'no more than one Pokemon of a species' rule was taken directly from the official tournament rulings (as stated in the first post of this thread), and if they wouldn't allow you to use multiple Eevee evolutions in their tourney's, people should just accept it and deal. As usual, you don't have to use Charms' rules. It's just nice to have the default that everyone knows and can follow.
I could possibly go with seeing two Eevee evos per team, but no more. It's one thing to make a fun "All Eevee Evos!" team, but people really can do better when it comes to creativity >_>
In the end, the 'no more than one Pokemon of a species' rule was taken directly from the official tournament rulings (as stated in the first post of this thread), and if they wouldn't allow you to use multiple Eevee evolutions in their tourney's, people should just accept it and deal. As usual, you don't have to use Charms' rules. It's just nice to have the default that everyone knows and can follow.
Then don't include it in your own battle rules.
As has been stated countless times, including in the very first post of this topic and the rules topic for this forum, these rules are base defaults that have been agreed on by consensus for fairness and to encourage diversity. You can pick and choose bits of the rules to follow, add your own or come up with a completely new ruleset all-together if you want - but you have to tell the people you're battling those rules so that everyone can be on the same page.
As has been stated countless times, including in the very first post of this topic and the rules topic for this forum, these rules are base defaults that have been agreed on by consensus for fairness and to encourage diversity. You can pick and choose bits of the rules to follow, add your own or come up with a completely new ruleset all-together if you want - but you have to tell the people you're battling those rules so that everyone can be on the same page.
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