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Need help refining Carracosta

Discussion in 'The Doctor's Clinic' started by Linkachu, Apr 2, 2011.

  1. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
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    Now that I've decided to start Pokemon Black, I'm back to my usual style. I'm going to competitively breed my whole Black team even though some of them may never be used outside of the Battle Subway or the odd, fun tourney.

    I've gotten everyone pegged, for the most part, except for one member: Carracosta. The problem with this guy is that both abilities are useful, he has a x4 grass weakness, and his special defense is low-ish. I want him to live through an attack, but I also want to be able to do something once surviving. Right now, its the natures/EVs that are stumping me.

    Adamant Nature/Impish
    Solid Rock
    EVs: 252 Attack, split HP and Defense or full Attack and HP

    Aqua Jet/Sandstorm
    Aqua Tail/Waterfall
    Rock Slide/Stone Edge

    Aqua Jet would be a nice STABed priority, but Sandstorm would give me the opportunity to boost my Special Defense. Matched with Solid Rock, it's quite a nice combination. The decision between Aqua Tail and Waterfall is purely the power verses accuracy, but since Carracosta isn't fast Waterfall's extra feature wouldn't be as useful unless Trick Room were in effect. Rock Slide/Stone Edge is again a decision between accuracy verses power, but also whether I'm doing Singles or Doubles/Triples. Earthquake verses Bulldoze on the other hand comes down to damage and speed calculations. Bulldoze is pretty nice for that extra Speed decreasing effect, but I'm not sure if it would decrease a Pokemon's speed enough for Carracosta to outspeed it next turn. If it didn't, it probably wouldn't be as useful because Carracosta might die. :p The lack of power from Bulldoze could also prove fatal since Carracosta's attack stat is high, but not that high - and it wouldn't be STABed.

    The Sturdy ability is pretty cool, but I think I'm more intrigued by Solid Rock on this guy due to not having Explosion as an option. IMO it also doesn't really have the physical strength or Speed stat to pull off a Rock Polish set, at least not as well as the likes of Golem.

    So, yeah. Again, I like bulky, but overall I do want something that can attack and do enough damage to justify its existence. Would Adamant instead of Impish make a huge difference power-wise, or could I safely go for an Impish nature and do full Attack/HP EV training? Any help is appreciated.

    (P.S. - Yes, I know I put too much thought into simple questions. XP)
  2. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    In essence, Solid Rock Carracosta's a less powerful and less bulky Rhyperior with a usable (barely) Sp.Attack stat.

    Weather moves are pointless in this day and age, you might as well have someone with a permanent weather ability on-hand if you want something like that since there's a lot of weather-users of this style who'll be lurking around now. Aqua Jet on the other hand is all but mandatory on Carracosta since it's the only viable option he has for bypassing his dreadful speed - even Rock Polish will only let him outspeed Base 110 Speed and under adversaries after one boost (and that's all you're likely to be allowed here.) Curse however is an interesting option that deserves some merit for boosting Carra's defensive prowess as well as boosting his Attack stat.

    As for the rest...Water/Rock/Ground actually provides overall good coverage together, so we'll go with that here. Waterfall is superior to Aqua Tail - Aqua Tail's negligible increase in power is not worth sacrificing the perfect accuracy of Waterfall for. Rock Slide vs Stone Edge however is usually down to personal preference, but I typically go for Stone Edge on slower Pokemon since Rock Slide's flinch chance goes to waste here. Earthquake over Bulldoze definitely for the same reasons Rock Polish is unviable.

    Your nature/EVs are both adequate, although I'd lean more towards HP + Attack only since Defense is already sky-high as it is and won't need training in really. As for the nature, personal preference really, either works just fine.

    If you really want a sandstorm, bring a Tyranitar/Hippowdon for a permanent one since that'll be more efficient in the long run. Or fight Bal.
  3. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
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    Much appreciated, KoL. That helps narrow down the moveset (I think I'll go Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Stone Edge, and EQ), and makes me feel more comfortable with the nature options.

    And yeah, probably better to just match this guy with a Sand Stream Pokemon for Sandstorm (which I technically do already have EV trained and at level 100). Or I can battle Bal. ;)
  4. First post, whee.

    Have you given thought to a Shell Smash set?

    Go with a Jolly Nature, boost its speed and attack, and go with Waterfall or Aquajet, Earthquake/Bulldoze, and either Rock Slide/Stone Miss(er... edge), with Shell Smash. Bring him in on something he threatens, Shell Smash on the switch, and go crazy. Couple this with Sturdy to avoid one-shots, and perhaps an Expert Belt over a Life Orb for the held item (yeah, won't boost everything...) and you have something that with Shell Smash has a speed of 324 (with 252 EV's and a boosting nature and assuming a middling IV) and a 630 attack, and if you take AJ over Waterfall, you have priority as well for anything that may still outspeed.
    #4 Valcarde, Apr 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2013
  5. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    There's four slight issues with that:

    1. Not much is threatened by Carracosta really, and even if they were, it isn't commonly used enough for many to know if it immediately threatens them or not. This means trying to force a switch for Shell Smash won't be easy unless you come in on Blaziken or something, and forcing a switch would be near-impossible if the opponent has nothing that Carracosta can force out.

    2. As mentioned with Rock Polish, Carracosta's Speed still isn't amazing with +2 on it. Anything with a Choice Scarf will lay waste to you if you don't use Aqua Jet, and if said Scarfer resists Water (and a fair few common ones do) then you're screwed.

    3. Conkeldurr > Shell Smash. Specific, but this guy is likely to be everywhere this generation, and using Shell Smash with this guy still on-hand on the opponent's team is basically saying "kill me please," especially if he's the one switching in. Guts-boosted STAB super-effective Mach Punch vs your lowered defenses = game over.

    4. Entry hazards ruin Sturdy, which makes Carracosta very reliant on Rapid Spin support. I'd also like to know why you suggested Life Orb for Carracosta given what Sturdy does.

    Honestly, Aqua Jet's probably the best thing Carracosta has on it with Shell Smash, and Curse probably does this better since Conkeldurr shenanigans and revenge-kills won't work so well on the boosted Defense stat combined with Aqua Jet negating the Speed drops.

    ...I guess that's a roundabout way of saying Shell Smash is overrated (i.e. it's not the greatest move in the game like some would have you believe) and you're better off having someone else take care of heavy-duty sweeping while Carracosta does something else (Curse Aqua Jet possibly?)
  6. I wasn't suggesting Life Orb. I've seen people throw life orb onto every set no matter what, and was saying 'You'll want Expert Belt over Life Orb'.
    #6 Valcarde, Apr 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2013
  7. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
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    Ah, yes. Apologies.
  8. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
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    Intrigued now. While I agree that Shell Smash would probably just ruin Carracosta instead of aiding it, you've got me thinking about Sturdy now. I've hatched several Adamant Carracosta with Sturdy, and I'm wondering if it's worth using them instead of Solid Rock Carracosta.

    Also. a quick thought.

    @ Sturdy/Solid Rock
    Full HP and Attack EVs or Full HP/Sp. Defense

    Aqua Jet
    Stone Edge/Waterfall
    Earthquake/Stone Edge/Waterfall

    The EVs I admit aren't very creative. I'm mostly just going for the only two EVs spreads I can think of. The second choice has Curse in mind. As for the set, I think with Curse that Aqua Jet is somewhat mandatory on this guy (unless Trick Room was in effect, but even then it's nice having the Priority STAB). The other two options I'm not as sure on. The first choice is for a STAB, but I can either go for a second more powerful Water-type attack or ignore it for Earthquake.

    Again, any help is appreciated. Also, I think the only time Shell Smash would be useful on this guy is if it had its Dream World ability. :X
  9. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    As far as Shell Smash is concerned, a Swift Swim Carracosta could indeed make very good use of it in the rain...but that's about it. Conkeldurr(p) still murders you mind.

    The main issue with Sturdy is that it becomes rather redundant after the Curse boosts have come in, while Solid Rock becomes significantly more effective. Sandstorm setup, as stated, would work wonders for the Curse set, but...well, Tyranitar/Hippowdon only. Sp.Defense training can help out, but it's up to you how you do it really.
  10. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
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    It hit me after posting that Solid Rock would aid a Curse set more than Sturdy, and I do have a good Solid Rock turtle to use... 31 Attack IV to boot.

    I'll think about the EVs, and if it's simply not working out I'll toss Tyranitar into the mix and see what happens. :p

    Thanks again, KoL.
    #10 Linkachu, Apr 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2013

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