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Natures and EV Training: love it or hate it?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Games Discussion' started by Robo-Matt, May 14, 2009.

  1. Something I wanted to ask people because some people love it..some people hate it. I personally hate it because it can take such a long time, and the sad fact is that it is required if you want to manage well in competitive battles. I believe EV training existed in the old generation games from what I've heard but they never required you to have a certain nature or have certain items. In your opinion do you think they should just lose the nature and EV training in future games or no?
     
  2. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    Oh gods no. I'd hate it if they stripped the games of natures/IVs/EVs, because all they'd be doing is dumbing things down... and that's no fun for anyone who enjoys the customization. =/

    This is how I see it (FEAR THE NOVEL OF TEXT!): EV training takes time, but if you value it then it's worth it in the end. The only reason you'd need to EV train in a competitive situation is because your opponent probably has themselves, and to me that's saying something. Some people want to go the extra mile to better their Pokemon and shape them exactly as they choose, and I say all the power to 'em. Why be restrictive? You're not forced to do it, and you can get through things like PBR, the Battle Frontier, etc. without perfected Pokemon - players do it all the time. For that reason I've always seen EV training as just something extra for the players who want to put the energy in - everyone else can ignore it entirely and still get by just fine.

    There's a difference between players who EV train because they personally want to and see the advantages to it (that's me), and those who push it down everyone's throats. You know the type, the "You're gonna suck if you don't EV train properly D=
     
  3. Magpie

    Magpie Feathered Overseer
    Staff Member Moderator

    I love EV training XD

    I didn't know anything about EVs or IVs until I joined this forum actually, so until the Fourth Gen I'd never done any EV training or breeding for good IVs. While it can be tedious and annoying, I love the feeling of finally having a 'perfect' Pokemon, who I've worked hard to train. It gives me a sense of achievement and pride, in a weird kind of way. I'd hate that to be taken away from the games.

    I know this discussion isn't really about IVs, so I'll be brief. I hate breeding for them. It takes forever to do, unless you're lucky (or have a willing friend to lend you a perfect IV speed Ditto :p). But when I finally do get what I'm after, it just feels so good, like you've achieved something.

    As for getting rid of Natures, I'd have to say no to that as well. While on occasion I've had problems, it is relatively easy to breed or even catch a good natured Pokemon. I like the bit of personality it gives them. It makes my level 100 Manectric different from someone else's level 100 Manectric, along with how I've trained it and how it's IVs are distributed. It makes them more unique and personal.

    As for player who don't like EV training etc, like Linkachu said it isn't necessary to enjoy the games. I recently played through Emerald and didn't bother with getting the right Natures or anything. I had a Sassy Electrike - no good nature wise, but fine for general play.

    So no, I'd be very disappointed if they removed that aspect of the games, and I'm sure many others would be too.
     
  4. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    :D

    *Ahem* I did kinda focus entirely on EVs in my post, but I think it's because it holds the most stigma for me. Just the random comments from people about how much of a waste of time it is when they know I was very happy to EV train my team... I didn't find it a waste of time at all. I enjoyed it! Like Magpie, I found pride in knowing my team was the best they could be - not because they'd win easier, but because I'd put the effort into raising them.

    I feel the same about natures. They make Pokemon a bit more individualized, and it's nice. The same goes for the held items. It's not hard to get your hands on some of them, and it's really fun trying various different ones out with various different strategies. I don't agree with these rigid views some competitive players have that a Pokemon MUST be this way, or MUST use this specific hold item... The charm of the games these days is that you can test out lots of different things until finally finding the perfect set up for you. ^^
     
  5. I only found out about it after joining up here. I only started trying it out yesterday on my Milotic. It is Lvl46 now and more powerful stat wise than most of my in-game team of Lvl63. You really do see the difference.

    But it could be annoying on a Pokemon that isn't traded or with Pokerus as most EV training I found can lead you to have to fight weaker Pokemon to ensure the right balance. I will probably do up one team just for Wi-fi'ing against those who have EV trained, but those six would be the limit. And I'd never do it while going through the story line of a game, that would be a nightmare.
     
  6. KoL

    KoL FPS Guy
    Staff Member Moderator

    I love it and hate it. I love it because it's amazing seeing the difference that it makes, like GodlessM said. I recently EV Trained a Heatran just to see how powerful it would turn out to be, and it had over 200 Sp.Attack at Lv.51. Seeing those sorts of numbers on your stats does give you a sense of accomplishment.

    Sometimes though, it does get a bit tedious and frustrating, especially when you're Speed EV training on the starting route and finding yourself encountering nothing but Bidoof instead of Starly for instance. That said, the game wouldn't be anywhere near as good without it in my opinion, and it is a unique and very interesting mechanic.
     
  7. Well the EVs are a pretty good Idea in my opinion, which allows to customize your pokemon properly. It always bugged me, that the only way to customize your pokemon was with items and with certain attacks until I found out about EVs.
    IVs on the other hand are really not a good idea.

    While a normal person can EV train his team in 2-5 days when he knows what hes doing, IV training your whole team can be a pain.
    You have to breed your pokemon, maybe crossbreed (dragonite dance->lapras->dance tyranitar) then get the right gender, the right nature and THEN EV train it.
    It is a lot of work that you have to put in but its still reasonable, and its often worth it (also you have many tools to your disposal to make everything faster).
    But the IV thing just bugs me. Its way too random ;/


    Also: Using some EV trained/natured Pokemon against someone who doesnt can get you some funny results. Today my 1xDragon Dance jolly 255 spd Tyranitar Outsped a friends infernape and he..well ..wasnt prepared for it :D
     
  8. I hate EV training my Pokemon, but I love the results. At level 50 my Snorlax has more HP than my Level 85 Empoleon. Granted, Snorlax does already have a high HP stat, but still...

    I hate IVs, so I do not breed for IVs, I do breed Natures, moves, and abilitys, but IVs are too random, and too hard to calculate.

    So, I hate and love it.
     
  9. Pretty good answers so far, it does I guess change my opinion about ev training slightly..keyword slightly lol. I guess ev training can be considered a good thing if you look at it another way.
     
  10. I personally think it's great since it gives you something to work for, rather than just battling. It is a pretty big pain to do, but once you're done, the results should make you pretty satisfied with doing it. So I would have to say I hate and love it.
     
  11. I have just recently begun getting into this in-depth training, and let me tell you: I LOVE it.

    Natures, EV's, and IV's (Something I've still yet to learn) make your Pokemon more customizable to your strategies. You may want a very slow Swampert for a Trick room team, so you want a Brave Nature, not Quirky or Sassy.

    If they were to take out Natures/EV's/IV's, I'd have to strangle someone; If I have a game, I don't want to beat the game then have nothing to do but train again, and again, and again against the Pokemon League.

    See? IT'd be boring and un-customizable.


    AL
    *Poof!*
     
  12. I think it's a great way to make each pokemon unique and this factor is what makes the games so good, gives each trainer something to work for and really create a team to their style, standard and strategies. BUT. Hatching the right nature, along with good IV's can be bloody boring beyond beleif and can take ALOT of time, and then on top of that there's the actual EV training, which isnt so bad once you have all the EV items from the battle tower, but still it can all be very repetitive and boring.
     
  13. ammm.............I know, I'm stupid but cool, but... what's EV and IV training?? :-[
     
  14. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    Generally, that question would be fine to ask, but you obviously didn't look around very hard for the answer either. We have a thread on this same board titled "EVs and IVs, A Quick Explanation" >>;;

    So, not only is your post adding nothing to this topic (read: spam), it shows that you didn't even look around for the answer before asking. You're getting a warning for that one.
     
  15. Well, I think it is definitely worth the time and effort, judging by the results of the few EV trained pokemon I have. Now I want to know the thoughts of other trainers out there.

    So do you think EV training is worth it? Or is it just a waste of time?
     
  16. I find it to be a waste of time. I like to depend on their natural power. Occasionally, I use Carbos, Calcium and all that crap, but that's about it. I won two wi-fi battles in one day without EV training.
     
  17. Jirachen, when you use mainly legendaries their natural power is usually as good as an EV'd Pokemon, so no wonder.

    Anyway I think EV training is great, but this thread is a waste since there is already one open.
     
  18. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    More or less what he said. I've now merged the two topics due to them sharing similar themes about EV training ^^
     
  19. I actually like EV training, even though sometimes it can get tedious depending on what Pokemon you're training. It just adds depth to the game and it makes a huge difference. I love hearing about non-EV'd legendaries/ubers falling to lower tiered EV'd Pokemon. Personally, I like defense EV training the best and find it the easiest.

    Besides, you'll never hope to really participate in the competitive battling scene if you don't EV train. Unless your opponents don't either, but good luck with that.

    But no, you don't need to do it to have fun. I for one never EV train during story mode and it's still really cool.
     
  20. I don't always use legendaries. Typically, I use My Froslass and Porygon2. I'm lending my Porygon2 to someone at the moment and he lost his DS, so...
     
  21. Shiny Lyni

    Shiny Lyni 2016 Singles Football

    Though I've never EV trained in my life, as my parents smashed my DS before I even knew what that was and why natures were so important in the game (besides for feeding Pokemon the "right" PokeBlock or Poffin), I personally think that it's awesome and stuffs, though quite tedious in many ways.

    First thing is breeding for the Pokemon with the right nature. Gosh, with so many natures, and each Pokemon getting the same chance of getting each nature (unless your Pokemon had an everstone, but meh), it gets really annoying quickly.

    Then there's the actual training. Which takes forever. I swear. I've seen a friend do it while on a trip, and he didn't get very far by the end of the trip. Which, I tell you, more than half of the time we were sitting in a bus. Driving. From place to place. And every time we were on a bus, he would sit there, EV training.

    I guess EV training is a good way to pass the time if you're bored out of your mind, which I usually am now that I'm in summer vacation. And I guess I could love it. But battling the same/similar Pokemon can only make you not bored for so long, so yeah.

    Guess what I'm saying is that I would like it because it helps my Pokemon and is a good way to waste time, but due to the person I am who has little patience, I would end up going berserk to fully EV train a single Pokemon, let alone a whole team. ^^;
     
  22. I had no idea what EVs/IVs were before 4th gen. Heck, I didn't even know what natures did. Went all out when I started Pearl though, importing exotic pokes from a very kind friend, carefully move/nature breeding...

    ...whelp, 130 cyndaquil eggs later I finally got my first Modest female. And then I started IV breeding. And I had to do these same thing for the other 5 pokemon on my dream team. I'm almost positive I didn't bother EVing any of those correctly, although I don't remember at this point.

    That said: given how incredibly minimal the nature/EVs/IVs are on playing through the story, I think they're a good idea. If you really want to go insane breeding the ultimate pokemon, you can. If you don't want to? You can play the game just fine.

    I'm also biased and think IVs are easier than EVs: I have two gameboys and thus I can wifi level 100 battles whenever I need to IV check, so every 6-18 eggs I do that, pick out the ones with the best IVs, and repeat until I go insane or get something with the setup I want. I find EVing involves a lot more careful tallymarks and fretting that I'll forget how many of what I've done so far.
     
  23. Haha, how things change!
     
  24. I love EV training. EV training is probably the best thing to ever happen to this franchise. Not only do I love EV training but I have breeding for IVs and extremely hard egg moves to breed. Just yesturday I breed over 100 VT Pichus just to get the right IV and nature I wanted.
     
  25. Bummer. I just read about EV training today on this forum and one like it, and it sounds so worthwhile and good. I always knew that natures had something to do with stats but I really never knew the details, and since I have never EV trained, I usually lose my wifi battles. I have played every generation without it but maybe I should start EV training now.
    I do like the customization it brings, and I will definitely look more into it to help me EV train my next pokes. It does sound like a lot of work though...
     
  26. When I first started it, it was a lot of work. The thought of beating two hundred and fifty two Bidoofs was quite a daunting and time consuming task.

    However, when you get the Power Items / Macho Brace / Pokerus, it becomes a lot easier. I just completely EV'd two pokemon today in the space of about 3 hours or so? As such, I like it now. Used to hate it but once you get the tools of the trade it becomes a lot more tolerable.
     

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