Private/Closed Naruto AU RP: discussion

[Retro Master]

You've been flying under the OP radar too long
View attachment 827824
Exposed.


Let the Grand Trial begin! What do you have to say in your defense @Retro Master ?

Your mom

Spoiler: Actual response

Tbf he was half dead afterwards and I think the snake broke its skull or something by falling like a mile down iirc

 

[Grand Master Koop]

Your mom

Spoiler: Actual response

Tbf he was half dead afterwards and I think the snake broke its skull or something by falling like a mile down iirc

Excellent defence, outstanding move.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

We are talking as if the snake wasn’t plummeting into a rock encased coffin anyway lol

 

[Nukas]

Tbf he was half dead

This is a side tangent, but I feel like the term half dead doesn’t mean what It should mean. If someone is half dead, it implies they are completely exhausted or close to death, but I feel like it should just mean working at half capacity. In that respect half dead would in tandem mean it was half alive. A jonin snake at half capacity should still be pretty freaking strong. That’s just a side tangent I wanted to go on for no reason at all, feel free to disregard this post.

 

[Retro Master]

This is a side tangent, but I feel like the term half dead doesn’t mean what It should mean. If someone is half dead, it implies they are completely exhausted or close to death, but I feel like it should just mean working at half capacity. In that respect half dead would in tandem mean it was half alive. A jonin snake at half capacity should still be pretty freaking strong. That’s just a side tangent I wanted to go on for no reason at all, feel free to disregard this post.

Well I meant Kiro himself was half dead after the landing as he was knocked out completely and was barely able to even stand straight after he woke up. He was basically rendered completely useless for the rest of the time in the cave lel

 

[kyuukestu]

Retro talking me into doing this: a full defense and explanation of Hinagiku's speed jutsu.

Hinagiku

"Emil, I'll leave this lizard to you, don't take too long or you'll miss all the fun~"

Weaving a few hand signs, Hinagiku applied the lighten weight rock technique to her person and lowered to the weight of her body, beneath her mask her Byakugan activated as she prepared her assault, using a combination of wind and water natured chakra she used Instant water gale, a modified version of the second Hokage's Instant water technique. Whereas the Second used jet streams of water from his feet to increase his speed, Hinagiku took this one step further by boosting the force of the jet streams with wind release. The technique by itself granted the user superb instantaneous acceleration, and Hinagiku's modification only made it that much better, but what would happen when both forceful jet streams were applied to her lightened body? Needless to say, her instantaneous speed was nothing short of frightening. Without her Byakugan she wouldn't even be able to properly utilize the technique, it was much like the Chidori in the sense that the user moved so fast that they'd acquire tunnel vision without the appropriate eyes.

The first time this technique was used. Jun 22, 2018. Over two years ago. Honestly, I'm not sure why it's an issue now, but nevertheless let's get on with the explanation. It is right there in the Post, but I'll go in-depth with even more specifics and why Hina is able to perform these techniques without hand seals.

Component 1: Lighten-Weight Rock Technique

The first component of this three-part technique is the lighten weight rock technique.

https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Earth_Release:_Light-Weight_Rock_Technique (Earth Release: Light-Weight Rock Technique)

That's what the Naruto-wiki says about it and here's it being used in canon:

You may take note of the complete lack of hand seals required to perform this Jutsu. Also, as we can see from Akatsuchi and Kurotsuchi, this technique doesn't require the user to constantly be in contact with whatever they're lightening or constantly be channeling their chakra. It is a one-time thing. You touch—Boop!—and your weight is reduced. This is further supported by Onoki being able to utilize Jutsu while this technique is in effect, such as using Earth Release or Particle style while floating.

Second Component: Instant Water

Now that her weight is reduced, its time to apply some speed. I chose to use the Second Hokage's Instant Water technique. This isn't a technique that exists in canon. It's actually a move taken from one of the Ninja Storm games.

https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Instant_Water (Instant Water)

Here's the wiki entry:

Employing their mastery of Water Release, the user releases a wave of water below their feet to act as jets to increase their speed which allows them to dash towards the opponent and attack with a full-body blow.

So the user released a wave of water from their feet to propel them forward.

This technique also doesn't utilize hand seals.

Component Three: Wind + Water Harmony

If you look at the Wiki page on Water Release, when they start speaking about what natures go together with Water Release, they mention Wind Release can be used in conjunction with Water Release to churn the water. You can look at the full entry below:

So Hina's modification to the Instant Water technique is to also expel jets of air that increase the power of the water jets. Hence why it's ingeniously named Instant Water Gale.



So those are the three techniques used to create Hina's speed-boosting technique. They're each very simple individually and none of them require hand seals to utilize. The last one isn't even a Jutsu on its own.

To clarify, although this uses three different Jutsu and three nature transformations in total, it does not use all three of them simultaneously. As I pointed out in with Akatsuchi and Kurotsuchi, once your weight has been lowered, it will remain lowered for at least some time. It does not require you to constantly be channeling the Lighten Rock Weight technique. It's a one-time thing.

After her weight has been lowered the only thing Hina needs to do is expel water jets and enhance their force with her wind release. She uses these wind-water jets to throw around her light-weight body and thus achieve extreme speed. That's two simultaneous nature releases.

That expulsion is, however, made easier by The Hyuga Clan's secondary kekkei genkai. Namely, that is the ability to innately expel chakra from all their chakra points. I don't think the Hyuga's ability to expel chakra from any part of their body should come as a surprise to anyone. Hina merely uses this kekkei genkai to enhance her usage of this technique, because expelling chakra comes easier to her than it would to other Jonin.

I'd point out that she hasn't even been using that kekkei genkai. She hasn't used it to expel wind-water jets from her back or hands or wherever to give herself more boosts; and, I'd argue she would certainly be able to do that given:

1) Her kekkei genkai enables this

2) None of these jutsu are complex enough to require hand seals

So far, she'd been using this technique like a completely normal Jonin would. So you could say she isn't getting any benefit from her kekkei genkai.

The only argument I can really think of in which the Hyuga kekkei genkai is used to any effect is where you postulate that because HIna can innately expel chakra, she only needs to focus on the two nature transformations and less of the shape transformation.


Individually the techniques aren't much but after stacking three of them together the speed boost should be fairly substantial. The logic behind it is high-school level physics.

F = ma

Force = mass x acceleration

We can re-arrange the equation to show:

acceleration = Force / mass

This means two things:

1) Acceleration increases as Force increases

2) Acceleration increases as Mass decreases



The Wind-Water jets provide an increase in force, and the lighten rock weight imitates a decrease in mass.

Now, I remember some arguments like...she should logically only be able to move as fast as the water, but now that I've got a clear mind I realize that the above physics of the technique easily debunks that. Her movement speed as nothing to do with the speed of her jets, but instead everything to do with the Force of those jets and the functional Mass of her body.

If you hit a ball with a bat, the ball does not go flying at the speed of the bat-swing. Its speed is dependent on much more complex calculations. The force of the swing will continue increasing the ball's acceleration until external forces like air resistance and gravity reduce that acceleration to zero. Only when the acceleration is zero has the ball reached its peak velocity or speed, and afterward, the outside forces continue to work on the ball causing it to slow down.

Breaking the Sound Barrier: becoming Super Sonic

Is the sound barrier that hard to break? In the real world, yes. In Naruto? No.

I do have reasons for why I believe that as well.

1) The speed of sound and supersonic speeds are just...not much in the Naruverse. If you want to accomplish any kind of character scaling you need something to work with and when we use real-work physics to try and scale things, we find out that supernaturally gifted characters are, in fact, supernaturally gifted. By Shippuden, everyone is casually breaking the sound barrier.

This is Hebi Sasuke dodging a C1 explosion.

I'm going to start using some assumptions here and we're actually going to downplay Deidara's explosives a lot. We're going to do him dirty and say Deidara's explosives are about as strong as Black Powder.

Black Powder is what they used as early gun-powder. It's what they used to fire flintlock and matchlock pistols back in the 1700s and ish. So in this scenario, Deidara's explosions are only about as good as gunpowder from 200 years ago.

The bullet fired from such a gun, can reach speeds ranging from 120 m/s to 370 m/s. This is notable because the speed of sound is only 343 m/s. So at the high end of the spectrum, we have bullets that could break the sound barrier. However, Deidara isn't firing any bullets, so what about the explosions itself?

So the explosion itself would be near twice the speed of sound and both Sasuke and Deidara still evaded it pretty casually from nearly point-blank, literally inches from them.

Let's look at a C2 bomb, one of the land mines Deidara had that Sasuke dodged from point-blank as well.

He avoided the blast by flying up.

Personally I think Deidara's explosions would be much stronger than black powder and thus have higher detonation velocities, but even if we spit on Deidara and say his explosions are only as good a black powder, the speed of sound is just something characters consistently go above.

For the record, if Deidara's explosions are similar to TnT, then TnT has a detonation velocity of a bit over Mach 20.




2) The Rotation itself is a technique that touches upon the sound barrier

That's not quite the speed of sound, but if a genin can do that I think a Jonin can probably breach the speed of sound with their rotation. I think that escalation is reasonable. So if a genin can use their chakra to push themselves near the speed of sound, I think a Jonin like Hina can use her chakra to push herself very comfortably beyond the speed of sound.

Conclusion

All of that said:


I do believe the combination of these three techniques should do well to push a Jonin, dare I wank her and say near-Kage-level, into super-sonic speed. It's the same principle behind what enables a bullet to be pushed past the sound barrier. Something very light is launched with a lot of force and thus goes very fast.

I simply fail to see why a Jonin would be unable to push herself into the super-sonic range with her chakra.

There was a lot of contention about her requiring hand-seals, but none of these Jutsu require hand seals. You can develop Jutsu specifically designed to work without hand seals and if anything the Hyūga kekkei genkai should allow her to expel chakra more easily.

Sagiso's wind shadow is also simply chakra expulsion. It's very violent chakra expulsion, but the basics remain the same. Sagiso expels chakra to push herself faster. Her sheer speed is because she does it so violently that it damages her legs in the process. The trade off is speed for self-injury.

Hinagiku should need no effort to achieve Sagiso levels of speed with her chakra, and that's without jumping through all the hopes of adding on two additional Jutsu to simple wind expulsion.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

Retro talking me into doing this: a full defense and explanation of Hinagiku's speed jutsu.



The first time this technique was used. Jun 22, 2018. Over two years ago. Honestly, I'm not sure why it's an issue now, but nevertheless let's get on with the explanation. It is right there in the Post, but I'll go in-depth with even more specifics and why Hina is able to perform these techniques without hand seals.

Component 1: Lighten-Weight Rock Technique

The first component of this three-part technique is the lighten weight rock technique.

https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Earth_Release:_Light-Weight_Rock_Technique (Earth Release: Light-Weight Rock Technique)

View attachment 831189

That's what the Naruto-wiki says about it and here's it being used in canon:

You may take note of the complete lack of hand seals required to perform this Jutsu. Also, as we can see from Akatsuchi and Kurotsuchi, this technique doesn't require the user to constantly be in contact with whatever they're lightening or constantly be channeling their chakra. It is a one-time thing. You touch—Boop!—and your weight is reduced. This is further supported by Onoki being able to utilize Jutsu while this technique is in effect, such as using Earth Release or Particle style while floating.

Second Component: Instant Water

Now that her weight is reduced, its time to apply some speed. I chose to use the Second Hokage's Instant Water technique. This isn't a technique that exists in canon. It's actually a move taken from one of the Ninja Storm games.

https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Instant_Water (Instant Water)

Here's the wiki entry:

View attachment 831192

Employing their mastery of Water Release, the user releases a wave of water below their feet to act as jets to increase their speed which allows them to dash towards the opponent and attack with a full-body blow.

So the user released a wave of water from their feet to propel them forward.

This technique also doesn't utilize hand seals.

Component Three: Wind + Water Harmony

If you look at the Wiki page on Water Release, when they start speaking about what natures go together with Water Release, they mention Wind Release can be used in conjunction with Water Release to churn the water. You can look at the full entry below:

View attachment 831193

So Hina's modification to the Instant Water technique is to also expel jets of air that increase the power of the water jets. Hence why it's ingeniously named Instant Water Gale.



So those are the three techniques used to create Hina's speed-boosting technique. They're each very simple individually and none of them require hand seals to utilize. The last one isn't even a Jutsu on its own.

To clarify, although this uses three different Jutsu and three nature transformations in total, it does not use all three of them simultaneously. As I pointed out in with Akatsuchi and Kurotsuchi, once your weight has been lowered, it will remain lowered for at least some time. It does not require you to constantly be channeling the Lighten Rock Weight technique. It's a one-time thing.

After her weight has been lowered the only thing Hina needs to do is expel water jets and enhance their force with her wind release. She uses these wind-water jets to throw around her light-weight body and thus achieve extreme speed. That's two simultaneous nature releases.

That expulsion is, however, made easier by The Hyuga Clan's secondary kekkei genkai. Namely, that is the ability to innately expel chakra from all their chakra points. I don't think the Hyuga's ability to expel chakra from any part of their body should come as a surprise to anyone. Hina merely uses this kekkei genkai to enhance her usage of this technique, because expelling chakra comes easier to her than it would to other Jonin.

I'd point out that she hasn't even been using that kekkei genkai. She hasn't used it to expel wind-water jets from her back or hands or wherever to give herself more boosts; and, I'd argue she would certainly be able to do that given:

1) Her kekkei genkai enables this

2) None of these jutsu are complex enough to require hand seals

So far, she'd been using this technique like a completely normal Jonin would. So you could say she isn't getting any benefit from her kekkei genkai.

The only argument I can really think of in which the Hyuga kekkei genkai is used to any effect is where you postulate that because HIna can innately expel chakra, she only needs to focus on the two nature transformations and less of the shape transformation.


Individually the techniques aren't much but after stacking three of them together the speed boost should be fairly substantial. The logic behind it is high-school level physics.

F = ma

Force = mass x acceleration

We can re-arrange the equation to show:

acceleration = Force / mass

This means two things:

1) Acceleration increases as Force increases

2) Acceleration increases as Mass decreases



The Wind-Water jets provide an increase in force, and the lighten rock weight imitates a decrease in mass.

Now, I remember some arguments like...she should logically only be able to move as fast as the water, but now that I've got a clear mind I realize that the above physics of the technique easily debunks that. Her movement speed as nothing to do with the speed of her jets, but instead everything to do with the Force of those jets and the functional Mass of her body.

If you hit a ball with a bat, the ball does not go flying at the speed of the bat-swing. Its speed is dependent on much more complex calculations. The force of the swing will continue increasing the ball's acceleration until external forces like air resistance and gravity reduce that acceleration to zero. Only when the acceleration is zero has the ball reached its peak velocity or speed, and afterward, the outside forces continue to work on the ball causing it to slow down.

Breaking the Sound Barrier: becoming Super Sonic

Is the sound barrier that hard to break? In the real world, yes. In Naruto? No.

I do have reasons for why I believe that as well.

1) The speed of sound and supersonic speeds are just...not much in the Naruverse. If you want to accomplish any kind of character scaling you need something to work with and when we use real-work physics to try and scale things, we find out that supernaturally gifted characters are, in fact, supernaturally gifted. By Shippuden, everyone is casually breaking the sound barrier.

This is Hebi Sasuke dodging a C1 explosion.

I'm going to start using some assumptions here and we're actually going to downplay Deidara's explosives a lot. We're going to do him dirty and say Deidara's explosives are about as strong as Black Powder.

Black Powder is what they used as early gun-powder. It's what they used to fire flintlock and matchlock pistols back in the 1700s and ish. So in this scenario, Deidara's explosions are only about as good as gunpowder from 200 years ago.

View attachment 831198

The bullet fired from such a gun, can reach speeds ranging from 120 m/s to 370 m/s. This is notable because the speed of sound is only 343 m/s. So at the high end of the spectrum, we have bullets that could break the sound barrier. However, Deidara isn't firing any bullets, so what about the explosions itself?

So the explosion itself would be near twice the speed of sound and both Sasuke and Deidara still evaded it pretty casually from nearly point-blank, literally inches from them.

Let's look at a C2 bomb, one of the land mines Deidara had that Sasuke dodged from point-blank as well.

He avoided the blast by flying up.

Personally I think Deidara's explosions would be much stronger than black powder and thus have higher detonation velocities, but even if we spit on Deidara and say his explosions are only as good a black powder, the speed of sound is just something characters consistently go above.

For the record, if Deidara's explosions are similar to TnT, then TnT has a detonation velocity of a bit over Mach 20.




2) The Rotation itself is a technique that touches upon the sound barrier

View attachment 831203

That's not quite the speed of sound, but if a genin can do that I think a Jonin can probably breach the speed of sound with their rotation. I think that escalation is reasonable. So if a genin can use their chakra to push themselves near the speed of sound, I think a Jonin like Hina can use her chakra to push herself very comfortably beyond the speed of sound.

Conclusion

All of that said:


I do believe the combination of these three techniques should do well to push a Jonin, dare I wank her and say near-Kage-level, into super-sonic speed. It's the same principle behind what enables a bullet to be pushed past the sound barrier. Something very light is launched with a lot of force and thus goes very fast.

I simply fail to see why a Jonin would be unable to push herself into the super-sonic range with her chakra.

There was a lot of contention about her requiring hand-seals, but none of these Jutsu require hand seals. You can develop Jutsu specifically designed to work without hand seals and if anything the Hyūga kekkei genkai should allow her to expel chakra more easily.

Sagiso's wind shadow is also simply chakra expulsion. It's very violent chakra expulsion, but the basics remain the same. Sagiso expels chakra to push herself faster. Her sheer speed is because she does it so violently that it damages her legs in the process. The trade off is speed for self-injury.

Hinagiku should need no effort to achieve Sagiso levels of speed with her chakra, and that's without jumping through all the hopes of adding on two additional Jutsu to simple wind expulsion.

While I do appreciate the explanation, there are many concerns with this combination to gain its results.

1. The water move without handseals evidently only exists in a game, which everyone got on about me using the wind justu on Sakon from a game until I could dig it out from an anime. Not to mention her somehow learning a justu specific to the second hokage without and training of his AND somehow modify it as well.

2. Deidara and sauske are currently over the bar of every jounin here. They aren’t good bars for this. Not to mention it’s difficult to see what’s an ‘anime effect’ and what’s a ‘feat’ especially since Deidara has the whole hiding in explosions shenanigans.

3. So you want to boost her to Kage level just to keep this technique...?

4. Realistically as well, this technique wouldn’t work in the first place since due to being miniaturized your small body would shatter upon the force of going that fast, saying you don’t even hit the slightest obstacle along the way. Not to mention even if you were somehow hardening your body’s defenses, you wouldn’t be able to turn due your now minuscule muscle mass to counteract the force.

5. Without handseals is the problem. The argument was you can do all of this with emissions. Which is just ludicrous. You actually have to preform justu for all of this, not emit the justu from your skin like sweat.

Theres just many issues upon issues with this skill in it’s current state. So I’d suggest workshopping it like we came to that conclusion last night.

 

[SageNeb]

While I do appreciate the explanation, there are many concerns with this combination to gain its results.

1. The water move without handseals evidently only exists in a game, which everyone got on about me using the wind justu on Sakon from a game until I could dig it out from an anime. Not to mention her somehow learning a justu specific to the second hokage without and training of his AND somehow modify it as well.

2. Deidara and sauske are currently over the bar of every jounin here. They aren’t good bars for this. Not to mention it’s difficult to see what’s an ‘anime effect’ and what’s a ‘feat’ especially since Deidara has the whole hiding in explosions shenanigans.

3. So you want to boost her to Kage level just to keep this technique...?

4. Realistically as well, this technique wouldn’t work in the first place since due to being miniaturized your small body would shatter upon the force of going that fast, saying you don’t even hit the slightest obstacle along the way. Not to mention even if you were somehow hardening your body’s defenses, you wouldn’t be able to turn due your now minuscule muscle mass to counteract the force.

5. Without handseals is the problem. The argument was you can do all of this with emissions. Which is just ludicrous. You actually have to preform justu for all of this, not emit the justu from your skin like sweat.

Theres just many issues upon issues with this skill in it’s current state. So I’d suggest workshopping it like we came to that conclusion last night.

I never complained about that sakon thing seems perfectly fine to me tbh. It’s an anime effect but still simple in combat and not a jutsu was used plus we downplayed deidara. So not boost to Kage level though hina is close anyways that if speed is one of hina’s main things she would easily get that. The body is not actually getting smaller it’s just acting that way. Also it’s not emitted like sweat, it’s just chakra flow. This is like super basic from feet and hands anyways. Basically sticking on surfaces with feet with water release. Except you’re not sticking but propelling yourself. One of the hyuga signature thing is the ability to do this from anywhere which has never been complained about.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

I never complained about that sakon thing seems perfectly fine to me tbh. It’s an anime effect but still simple in combat and not a jutsu was used plus we downplayed deidara. So not boost to Kage level though hina is close anyways that if speed is one of hina’s main things she would easily get that. The body is not actually getting smaller it’s just acting that way. Also it’s not emitted like sweat, it’s just chakra flow. This is like super basic from feet and hands anyways. Basically sticking on surfaces with feet with water release. Except you’re not sticking but propelling yourself. One of the hyuga signature thing is the ability to do this from anywhere which has never been complained about.

You’d be right about emissions. Emissions are natural for hyuga. And I’m not complaining about that. I’m complaining about emitting full on powerful justu from your body. Imagine if you could emit Fireballs from any part of your body, or water dragons, or worse.

 

[SageNeb]

You’d be right about emissions. Emissions are natural for hyuga. And I’m not complaining about that. I’m complaining about emitting full on powerful justu from your body. Imagine if you could emit Fireballs from any part of your body, or water dragons, or worse.

I don’t think it’s that much of an issue from 2 hand seals to none, sasuke did it.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

I don’t think it’s that much of an issue from 2 hand seals to none, sasuke did it.

Sasuke also mind controlled every tailed beast in a single glance. Not exactly the prime example.

 

[SageNeb]

You’d be right about emissions. Emissions are natural for hyuga. And I’m not complaining about that. I’m complaining about emitting full on powerful justu from your body. Imagine if you could emit Fireballs from any part of your body, or water dragons, or worse.

I don’t think it’s ever been used for how you’re talking about tho. Every jutsu without hand seals i’ve seen is pretty close to the user not a ranged powerful jutsu like those.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

I don’t think it’s ever been used for how you’re talking about tho. Every jutsu without hand seals i’ve seen is pretty close to the user not a ranged powerful jutsu like those.

Hina is using a super sonic cannon without handseals in one hand and a hokage’s justu she somehow learned without handseals in the other

 

[SageNeb]

Hina is using a super sonic cannon without handseals in one hand and a hokage’s justu she somehow learned without handseals in the other

That’s basic stuff though and it’s from her feet. Taiyo can do that

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

That’s basic stuff though

...no. No that is not. Bear in mind you tried to jump 20 km with just a flicker.

 

[SageNeb]

...no. No that is not. Bear in mind you tried to jump 20 km with just a flicker.

You know supersonic is just 768 mph right? Regular irl water jets are 1700 mph lol. Plus this is from a ninja, and a Jonin-Kageish and with wind added.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

You know supersonic is just 768 mph right? Regular irl water jets are 1700 mph lol. Plus this is from a ninja, and a Jonin-Kageish and with wind added.

Water jets vary in real life. But that’s beside the point. I’m arguing it shouldn’t just be emitted from your body at blinding supersonic speeds without justu it handseals. That’s just insanity and won’t happen. Especially just for a clan head

 

[Retro Master]

Hina is using a super sonic cannon without handseals in one hand and a hokage’s justu she somehow learned without handseals in the other

First off, the Hokage’s Jutsu doesn’t require hand seals and frankly isn’t a technique that is too hard to learn.

“Employing their mastery of Water Release, the user releases a wave of water below their feet to act as jets to increase their speed which allows them to dash towards the opponent and attack with a full-body blow.“

All the user her is doing is expelling water through their feet which is one of the first things a ninja is taught. This is also helped by the Hyūga’s innate ability to expel chakra emissions from their body. Mind you, Hina should have mastery if water release as well, so performing something like that should be relatively simple even if she created it herself from scratch.

As for the technique being Hokage level, it’s not. The technique has only been used by a Kage but the way it actually functions aren’t really too hard for someone Chūnin level above to perform.

I should also point out that a similar technique has been performed by a character from a movie.

“In Naruto Shippūden the Movie, Shizukuutilised a similar usage of water by gliding on a stream generated from her feet, allowing her to chase Naruto through a forest area with ease.”

This should be reason enough that performing a similar technique isn’t Kage level if some random in the first Shippuden movie could do it.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

First off, the Hokage’s Jutsu doesn’t require hand seals and frankly isn’t a technique that is too hard to learn.

“Employing their mastery of Water Release, the user releases a wave of water below their feet to act as jets to increase their speed which allows them to dash towards the opponent and attack with a full-body blow.“

This was a style unique to the hokage, as that is what he was famous for. Not just any person can copy that, especially since he is dead and can’t teach anyone.

And even then, I don’t have a big issues with generating water streams behind yourself usIng the hyuga style. Just not to cleave boulders, rocket you faster than lcm, broken stuff. Doing that with just no movements at all (which Kyuu said Hina could do) is madness.

 

[SageNeb]

This was a style unique to the hokage, as that is what he was famous for. Not just any person can copy that, especially since he is dead and can’t teach anyone.

And even then, I don’t have a big issues with generating water streams behind yourself usIng the hyuga style. Just not to cleave boulders, rocket you faster than lcm, broken stuff. Doing that with just no movements at all (which Kyuu said Hina could do) is madness.

LCM is slower than chakra jets? Trash

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

LCM is slower than chakra jets? Trash

It’s not that LCM is trash, this skill is too powerful. Hence it’s nerf.

 

[SageNeb]

This was a style unique to the hokage, as that is what he was famous for. Not just any person can copy that, especially since he is dead and can’t teach anyone.

And even then, I don’t have a big issues with generating water streams behind yourself usIng the hyuga style. Just not to cleave boulders, rocket you faster than lcm, broken stuff. Doing that with just no movements at all (which Kyuu said Hina could do) is madness.

Also if you mean creating water is Kage level fame well sorry to burst your bubble but Raiku has done that multiple times easily

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

Also if you mean creating water is Kage level fame well sorry to burst your bubble but Raiku has done that multiple times easily

...I didn’t in any fragment of the imagination imply that.

 

[SageNeb]

...I didn’t in any fragment of the imagination imply that.

Then what’s so signature about Tobirama using a super simple game jutsu?

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

Then what’s so signature about Tobirama using a super simple game jutsu?

1. Not everyone can just emit it from themselves. And those who do, like tobirama, created a signature way to do so. Just like how rasengan seems so easy to do, but most just lack the knowledge.

 

[SageNeb]

...I didn’t in any fragment of the imagination imply that.

Cleaving boulders is just jonin/chunin level water style and we don’t even know how fast LCM is.

 

[SageNeb]

1. Not everyone can just emit it from themselves. And those who do, like tobirama, created a signature way to do so. Just like how rasengan seems so easy to do, but most just lack the knowledge.

Emitting is pretty simple from hands and feet, it’s just hyuga can do it from anywhere.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

Cleaving boulders is just jonin/chunin level water style and we don’t even know how fast LCM is.

It’s not the justu. It’s how it’s performed.

 

[Retro Master]

This was a style unique to the hokage, as that is what he was famous for. Not just any person can copy that, especially since he is dead and can’t teach anyone.

And even then, I don’t have a big issues with generating water streams behind yourself usIng the hyuga style. Just not to cleave boulders, rocket you faster than lcm, broken stuff.

You’re missing the point though. That technique is not a style famous to the Second. It’s only ever been used by him in a game. The function of the jutsu is simple enough. A jutsu that the second is famous for is flying raijin and edo tensei, but those two jutsu are not something just anyone can do.

Okay I can see that point. Being able to move that fast with water alone probably isn’t possible. We don’t exactly know how fast Tobirama was with this technique either. However, even if the water can’t push her to high level of speed, Hina does add to it by stacking two other techniques. One is the lighten weight technique, which is the first thing performed in the sequence. That also does not require hand seals. The final thing Hina does is add wind release to the water, which allows it to act like a jet. Adding wind release to supplement water is almost the same thing as adding wind to supplement fire. With the Hyūga kekkei genkai, simply adding wind release too water release without seals is also something simple to perform. Of course, it should also require a high level of chakra control.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

Emitting is pretty simple from hands and feet, it’s just hyuga can do it from anywhere.

Again. No problem with this. It’s emitting to that scale. Imagine if you could emit water dragons from your eyes without handsigns.

 

[SageNeb]

Again. No problem with this. It’s emitting to that scale. Imagine if you could emit water dragons from your eyes without handsigns.

Water dragon from a drop of water in 3 hand seals like azumi does is much more op imo

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

You’re missing the point though. That technique is not a style famous to the Second. It’s only ever been used by him in a game. The function of the jutsu is simple enough. A jutsu that the second is famous for is flying raijin and edo tensei, but those two jutsu are not something just anyone can do.

Okay I can see that point. Being able to move that fast with water alone probably isn’t possible. We don’t exactly know how fast Tobirama was with this technique either. However, even if the water can’t push her to high level of speed, Hina does add to it by stacking two other techniques. One is the lighten weight technique, which is the first thing performed in the sequence. That also does not require hand seals. The final thing Hina does is add wind release to the water, which allows it to act like a jet. Adding wind release to supplement water is almost the same thing as adding wind to supplement fire. With the Hyūga kekkei genkai, simply adding wind release too water release without seals is also something simple to perform. Of course, it should also require a high level of chakra control.

For the final time. I have no complaints with emitting. It’s what they do. Just not breaking the sound barrier type of speed with just wind and water that uses no hansigns to do at the same time. It’s too much. Especially for just a clan head.

 

[SageNeb]

For the final time. I have no complaints with emitting. It’s what they do. Just not breaking the sound barrier type of speed with just wind and water that uses no hansigns to do at the same time. It’s too much. Especially for just a clan head.

I think this is because we never discuss how fast things actually are. We just say people are fast but we don’t have anyway to compare it to jutsu.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

I think this is because we never discuss how fast things actually are. We just say people are fast but we don’t have anyway to compare it to jutsu.

Again. I don’t care. It’s about just emitting this freely

 

[Retro Master]

For the final time. I have no complaints with emitting. It’s what they do. Just not breaking the sound barrier type of speed with just wind and water that uses no hansigns to do at the same time. It’s too much. Especially for just a clan head.

She lightens her weight first then wind and water without hand seals. She also doesn’t need hand seals for water because she’s has the Hyūga Kekkei Genkai and has mastery with water release. All that she would really need hand seals for is probably the wind release, but again, she is a clan head bordering Kage level with strong focus in chakra control. With high level of chakra control, combined with being a Hyūga, emitting all three of these free of hand seals should be possible. Especially since she’s not doing it all at the same time.

Again. I don’t care. It’s about just emitting this freely

You just said you don’t care about emitting lel

 

[Retro Master]

Water dragon from a drop of water in 3 hand seals like azumi does is much more op imo

@Shen: King of the Mist

I’d also like to see your response to this. Water dragon jutsu costs about 40 hand seals to perform and someone only like Tobirama was able to perform without a water source. However, Azumi was able to perform it with like two seals without even expending her canteen.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

You just said you don’t care about emitting lel

I don’t. I DO care about emmitting to this scale however. Just like how I’m okay with Sagiso having water style, but I’m not okay with her flooding the universe with a glance. There’s scales here.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

@Shen: King of the Mist

I’d also like to see your response to this. Water dragon jutsu costs about 40 hand seals to perform and someone only like Tobirama was able to perform without a water source. However, Azumi was able to perform it with like two seals without even expending her canteen.

I’ll chalk it up to a continuity error, I didn’t know about this till recently.

 

[kyuukestu]

While I do appreciate the explanation, there are many concerns with this combination to gain its results.

1. The water move without handseals evidently only exists in a game, which everyone got on about me using the wind justu on Sakon from a game until I could dig it out from an anime. Not to mention her somehow learning a justu specific to the second hokage without and training of his AND somehow modify it as well.

It's a basic technique to emit chakra from your body. As Retro pointed it she could honestly create the jutsu herself from scratch. It's that basic.

2. Deidara and sauske are currently over the bar of every jounin here. They aren’t good bars for this. Not to mention it’s difficult to see what’s an ‘anime effect’ and what’s a ‘feat’ especially since Deidara has the whole hiding in explosions shenanigans.

Uhh, no they aren't above the bar of every Jonin here. The only characters that are above the bar of every Jonin here are Damos, Nagato, Kari. Clan Heads could tackle the other members of the Akatsuki, probably even win.

3. So you want to boost her to Kage level just to keep this technique...?

She's a Clan Head and an Anbu, she's at the peak of Jonin and bordering on Kage.

4. Realistically as well, this technique wouldn’t work in the first place since due to being miniaturized your small body would shatter upon the force of going that fast, saying you don’t even hit the slightest obstacle along the way. Not to mention even if you were somehow hardening your body’s defenses, you wouldn’t be able to turn due your now minuscule muscle mass to counteract the force.

Miniaturized? What? She doesn't miniaturize herself, just lightens her weight.

5. Without handseals is the problem. The argument was you can do all of this with emissions. Which is just ludicrous. You actually have to preform justu for all of this, not emit the justu from your skin like sweat.

Theres just many issues upon issues with this skill in it’s current state. So I’d suggest workshopping it like we came to that conclusion last night.

None of the jutsu require hand seals and again this is helped by a kekkei genkai to do just that. The only thing she performs is emitting water jets and strengthening them with wind.


She also do this from her legs to push her body to supersonic speeds. I don't know where you got the hand canon thing from.

 

[SageNeb]

I don’t. I DO care about emmitting to this scale however. Just like how I’m okay with Sagiso having water style, but I’m not okay with her flooding the universe with a glance. There’s scales here.

I was talking about emitting to this scale though?