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DPPt/HGSS Issues with ghosts...

Discussion in 'The Doctor's Clinic' started by Zanifar, May 31, 2009.

  1. Before I begin, let me just clarify that I own Pokémon Diamond and have access to nearly every Pokémon in existance... Anywho, to the point.

    I need a ghost type with high special defence and another with high special attack. I would like a Gengar for the attacker, but if you know of a better one, I'm all ears. So which ghost type is best for defence and the other for attack? Also, which nature is best suited to grow a Pokémon with high special attack/defence?

    Thank you for your time.
    ~Zanifar​
     
    #1 Zanifar, May 31, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014
  2. KoL

    KoL FPS Guy
    Staff Member Moderator

    The top three ghosts for Sp.Defense are Dusknoir, Spiritomb and Rotom's Appliance Formes. Dusknoir is generally preferred over Rotom due to Rotom's odd typing and movepool being more tiered towards stopping physical attackers, although Rotom can do the job reasonably well. Spiritomb is another option, and is notable for having zero weaknesses. Those three are your best bets.
     
  3. Gengar is an obvious and very good choice. The speed and SpA make a wonderful sweeper out of him.
    Im using a Choice Specs gengar with 252atk/252spd/4hp EVs with this moveset:
    -Thunderbolt
    -Shadowball
    -Focus Blast
    -Exposion

    This covers enough in my opinion and can be very devastating.Sometimes I switch the choice specs for a life orb. depending on my team setup.

    As a ghost wall you can use Spiritomb or Dusknoir.
    Spiritomb is a nice choice because nothing can hit it super effective (ghost/dark)
    but Dusknoir has better overall defenses and Im sure there are some rotom forms that you can use.
    the Problen is that I've never played with one of those so im not going to directly copy stuff from other sites without testing it D:

    Modest is good for special atk as it just lowers normal atk
    Calm raises Special Def and lowers atk
    Careful raises Special Def but lowers special Atk

    So choose what fits better~

    [EDIT] Argh KoL beat me to it!
     
  4. Ruko

    Ruko Bearded Trout Warrior

    Friend Code:
    0473-7895-5364
    I strongly disagree with that EV spread. You want the EVs to go into special attack rather than attack.. Explosion will be weaker, but will still do massive damage regardless... without special attack training, Gengar will fall short where it's needed most.

    And with that out of the way, I present this table and a couple more candidates

    [table]
    [tr][td]Name[/td][td]
    -|-​
    [/td][td]Hit Points[/td][td]
    -|-​
    [/td][td]Defense[/td][td]
    -|-​
    [/td][td]S. Defense[/td][td]
    -|-​
    [/td][td]Speed[/td][/tr]

    [tr][td]Dusknoir[/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    45​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    135​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    135​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    45​
    [/td][/tr]

    [tr][td]Spiritomb[/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    50​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    108​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    108​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    35​
    [/td][/tr]

    [tr][td]Rotom Appliance[/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    50​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    107​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    107​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    87​
    [/td][/tr]

    [tr][td]Mismagius[/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    60​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    60​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    105​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    105​
    [/td][/tr]

    [tr][td]Drifblim[/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    150​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    44​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    54​
    [/td][td]
    |​
    [/td][td]
    *80​
    [/td][/tr]
    [/table]

    Going to restate some things mentioned before me just to be complete.



    Dusknoir has the most impressive defenses, but also very low speed and HP. The low speed means it will likely be hit every turn it's out, and also leaves it quite susceptible to taunt... HP is worked around and even used to Dusknoir's advantage with Pain Split, though you have to survive the turn you want to use it.
    Dusknoir's most effective attacks [in my opinion]
    • Will-o-Wisp
    • Toxic
    • Confuse Ray
    • Pain Split
    • Curse [remember, ghost is different]
    • Mean Look
    • Spite [Platinum only]
    • Trick Room
    • Protect
    • Disable
    • -
    • 3 Elemental punches
    • Night Shade [set damage]
    • Shadow Sneak [Priority]
    • Shadow Punch
    • Payback
    • Earthquake
    • Rock Smash [50% Defense drop will add up]

    Spite + Protect Combined with Dusknoir's ability, pressure, will drain opponent's PP very quickly. Spite now lowers PP by 4 instead of being random, so it's a lot more reliable for it's job.
    Curse + Pain Split/Pursuit - Curse is costly to yourself, but will almost always make an opponent switch.. and even if they don't, it'll likely be more costly to them. Pain split is technically a status attack, and so will hit even ghosts that may switch in. I wouldn't reccomend pursuit for the missed oppurtunity at healing, but again curse causes switching if you'd prefer this blindly offensive tactic.



    Spiritomb has lower defenses and speed than dusknoir, but sports no weaknesses except when facing some Miltank and Kangaskhan [Scrappy Ability will make fighting moves super-effective]. The same issues with speed apply here as with dusknoir, and spiritomb also packs Pain Split to make up for HP. Spiritomb has higher special attack and very slightly lower physical attack than Dusknoir.
    Spiritomb's most effective attacks [in my opinion]
    • Hypnosis
    • Will-o-Wisp
    • Toxic
    • Confuse Ray
    • Curse [ghost, blah blah]
    • Spite
    • Calm Mind
    • Protect
    • -
    • Shadow Sneak [priority]
    • Sucker Punch [Platinum, priority]
    • Shadow Ball
    • Dark Pulse
    • Pursuit
    • Ominous Wind
    • Silver Wind
    • Psychic

    Spite + Protect can again be matched with pressure here for some pretty annoying results
    Curse + Pain Split/Pursuit again, will work just like Dusknoir.
    Hypnosis + Pursuit/OtherStatus can effectively get in a cheap shot on predictable opponents. Curse here can really cause some tough decisions, since they'd be switching to whatever could best deal with spiritomb.



    Rotom's appliance forms I'm going to skip over for three reasons:
    A) You said you have Diamond, which they aren't obtainable in even via trading with Platinum.
    B) They can't be used in online battles anyway since rotom reverts to normal form upon connecting to wifi or entering a union room.
    C) I'm starting to feel lazy having been working on this post for the last two and a half hours.



    Disregarding the conditional ability of the last ghost, Mismagius is the fastest choice of the lot while still maintaining decent special defense and special attack. The combination of movepool and stats make Mismagius the most versatile of your choices. Mismagius does lack defense, unlike your other choices, and so will only be able to take special attacks well.
    *A note that I forgot before: since Mismagius is a stone evolution, it can't relearn most of its attacks. You have to teach everything before evolving.. and if you want to change something later [after learning a certain combination doesn't suit you, for instance], you'll probably have to rebreed.
    Mismagius' most useful moves [in my opinion]
    • Will-o-Wisp
    • Thunder Wave
    • Toxic
    • Confuse Ray
    • Curse
    • Perish Song
    • Pain Split
    • Mean Look
    • Memento
    • Destiny Bond
    • Trick
    • Calm Mind
    • Susbtitute
    • -
    • Shadow Ball
    • Ominous Wind
    • Thunderbolt
    • Charge Beam [70% Sp. Atk up]
    • Energy Ball

    Curse + Will-o-Wisp/Thunderwave - Again, most opponents will switch when you curse, which gives you a chance to hit the switch-in with status. Mismagius' defense stat is low, so the switch will likely be quite a physical threat. T-wave will kill their speed and give you the first strike to do as you please, while Will-o-Wisp will halve their attack stat. If you're feeling lucky, you could even throw the dice with confuse ray, or try to force an immediate switch with another curse [offset HP to be an odd number so the second curse won't kill you]
    Calm Mind + Attacks - Calm mind will boost your special defense as well as special attack, which could turn a speed and special defense trained mage into a sweeper. Just be sure not to switch in on something with Thunderwave or that may have a surprise physical attack.
    Substitute + Destiny Bond Substitute on a switch, then destiny bond on the turn your opponent destroys it... they'll be left with a hard choice of what to do next. Quite situational to pull off this combo, since your opponent will have to be faster than you after the switch... but having substitute and Destiny bond functioning individually will work fine with a set and just make for a handy ace up the sleeve.



    Drifblim is a very odd one.. you may have noticed that none of the walls mentioned above have very good HP ratings, which they make up for with massive defenses.. The opposite holds true with Drifblim and it makes just as good of a wall as they do. Drifblim's ability allows it to attain a higher speed than Mismagius with very little speed training, but it's conditional and you'll have to use an expendable item for it to activate.
    Drifblim's most useful attacks
    • Hypnosis
    • Thunder Wave
    • Will-o-Wisp
    • Toxic
    • Memento
    • Calm Mind
    • Stockpile
    • Substitute
    • Baton Pass
    • Haze
    • -
    • Shadow Ball
    • Ominous Wind
    • Silver Wind
    • Psychic
    • Thunderbolt
    • Charge Beam
    • Spit Up

    Calm Mind + Attack will work like stated above.
    Stat-up + Baton Pass fairly standard and doesn't sound like what you're looking for, but thought I should mention it.
    Stockpile + Sitrus Berry Makes for a fairly reliable way to boost your defenses as well as activating your ability [Sitrus restores 30% instead of set 30 HP now]
    Spit Up instead of Explosion if you manage 3 stockpiles, Spit up will be more powerful and based off of the higher special attack stat.. it also won't KO you, so you can still get off at least one sucker punch on whatever gets sent out [assuming you KO'd and that Unburden is active]. Will obviously only work on a set containing stockpile, but is more successful than explosion on such a set in my opinion.
    Hypnosis + Will-o-Wisp will work like the above Hypnosis + status, but Thunderwave is somwhat risky as well as not really being needed here [assuming unburden activates, you should be faster]. Electivire is the main reason I say thunderwave could be somewhat risky.. not so much for being predicted, but just because it would make a good switchin to try and take down Drifblim.
     
  5. im sorry this was a big mistake. Of Course your gengar should have SpA EVs and a modest nature!
     
  6. KoL

    KoL FPS Guy
    Staff Member Moderator

    Don't forget about Protect on Dusknoir and Spiritomb. Between Pressure, Protect and Spite, those two can eat through a moveset's PP alarmingly fast if allowed to.
     
  7. Ruko

    Ruko Bearded Trout Warrior

    Friend Code:
    0473-7895-5364
    Editted Drifblim in, as well as adding Protect to Dusknoir/Spiritomb. I realize I overlooked Pain Split on Mismagius too XD

    As for a few sets that I think would satisfy what you're looking for:

    Dusknoir @ Leftovers
    Careful Nature
    Assuming perfect HP IV: 36 HP/236 Def/232 S. Def
    -Curse
    -Pain Split
    -Protect
    -Night Shade

    An offset Dusknoir that will cause many switches and hopefully eat through your opponent slowly.. consider combining with Stealth Rock, Spikes and/or Toxic Spikes
    Night Shade removes any need for attack training, while still giving you a back door in the event you get taunted
    Curse will make opponents want to switch, especially if they know you have protect on the set
    Pain Split takes advantage of a low base HP, and can catch switches after curse very well.
    Protect will stall for leftovers, Pressure, and should your opponent choose to stay in, also curse.


    Mismagius @ Wise Glasses/Pinch Berry
    Timid Nature
    4 S. Atk/252 S. Def/252 Spd
    -Calm Mind
    -Shadow Ball
    -Thunderbolt
    - ?

    Mismagius is, admittedly, not built to be a wall. But it has the stats and Calm Mind to pull it off as a surprise [most opponents will expect it to be an attacker]
    Calm Mind should be on this set for obvious reasons
    Shadow Ball makes for a powerful STAB
    Thunderbolt coverage of things that your STAB can't hit
    Last move can basically be anything you saw me mention earlier - Hidden Power Fighting will take care of the only three pokemon that wall Ghost + Electric [Shiftry, Steelix, Magneton/zone]. Will-o-wisp can help take on physical pokemon, and Confuse ray can help you set up Calm mind.... the list goes on XD
     

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