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HeartGold Team

Discussion in 'The Doctor's Clinic' started by Linkachu, Jul 23, 2010.

  1. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    Friend Code:
    4167-4498-1464
    In a way, this is an in-game team that's built with competitive battling in mind. Some of these guys might one day see the competitive world while others may not, simply because there are better Pokemon out there to fill their roles. Regardless of that, these guys are all top favourites of mine and I'd like to raise them all to be the best they can be. :)

    Edit July 26: Most of these sets have now been changed and settled related to comments in this thread. Don't go by their sets that I have listed here - go by the sets stated in my comments. The only Pokemon who's still a bit up in the air is my Zangoose. All further help is appreciated!

    Let's start with the starter...

    Typhlosion @ Power Herb/Wise Glasses
    Modest
    Blaze
    Full Speed and Sp. Attack training

    - Eruption
    - Flamethrower/Fire Blast
    - Solar Beam
    - Focus Blast/Sunny Day

    This here is my shiny Cyndaquil, soon to be Typhlosion. She can't be rebred so I'm stuck with what I've got (which isn't too shabby). The basics of this set are fairly easy to see. Eruption's there for a power hit when my HP is full, and Fire Blast or Flamethrower pick up where it leaves off. Solar Beam + Power Herb is meant to catch pesky Rock/Ground/Water types that switch in on me without requiring a set-up turn, and Focus Blast provides a bit more special attack-based coverage. I honestly can't think of a better attack to place there aside from Sunny Day, which is always a possibility. And before anyone asks, her Hidden Power is 40 BUG-type.



    Zangoose @ Focus Sash/Life Orb/Muscle Band
    Jolly
    Immunity
    Full Speed and Attack EV training

    -Close Combat
    -Quick Attack/Return
    -Night Slash/Ice Punch
    -Sword Dance

    I know, Zangoose is a fragile bugger and with Stealth Rock in play Focus Sash becomes fairly useless, but if I could get off at least one Sword Dance I could hopefully do some decent damage. Close Combat will take out the Steel and Rock-types in my way, and Night Slash gets the Ghosties. Quick Attack is on the set simply for a STAB priority move, but Return would offer a much stronger hit. Ice Punch I'm considering coverage-wise, but it would mean I'd get walled by Froslass.

    Definitely willing to take suggestions on this guy because I wasn't quite sure what to do with him.




    Armaldo @ ????
    Impish/Adamant
    Battle Armor
    Evs 252 Defense & Split EVs between HP and Attack

    -Rapid Spin
    -Rock Blast
    -X-Scissor
    -Earthquake/Aqua Tail/Stealth Rock

    Armaldo will be a mix between a support Pokemon and an offensive attacker that's intended to take hits. I've never used a Rapid Spinner before and, while Armaldo isn't the best for the job, I'd like to try it out. Rock Blast has Sub users in mind and will hopefully break them while dealing some extra damage, but it can also make a nice offensive attack if you get lucky. X-Scissor is for a powerful STAB attack. The last slot is very undecided... Earthquake offers Rock-type protection while covering a few other types, as does Aqua Tail (can't do much about the Water-type weakness). On the other hand, Stealth Rock is always handy to have around and I don't currently have a Pokemon on the team that's able to use it.



    Absol @ Scope Lens
    Adamant or Jolly
    Super Luck (But not opposed to Pressure)
    Full Attack and Speed Evs

    -Super Power
    -Psycho Cut
    -Night Slash/Pursuit
    -Sucker Punch

    Derp. Absol isn't the quickest Pokemon so I'm not sure if having a Jolly nature is worthwhile, hence the confusion of which nature to use. As for the attacks... LoN's suggestion for Superpower is definitely more useful than Megahorn (provides much needed coverage). Psycho Cut provides a bit of back-up against Fighting-type Pokemon and has the upped crit. rate to work off Super Luck. Then we have my STAB attacks... STAB Sucker Punch is an excellent priority attack and well matched with Pursuit, however Night Slash would offer a heavier hitting attack when Sucker Punch isn't an option.



    Slowking @ Leftovers
    Calm
    Own Tempo
    252 HP, 252 Special Defense, 6 Special Attack

    -Psychic
    -Surf/Brine
    -Ice Beam
    -Flamethrower/Grass Knot

    Special-type tank sweeper guy. Psychic and Brine/Surf are for STAB, Ice Beam offers a counter for Grass-types and anyone who enjoys abusing the x4 weakness Dragons, and finally Flamethrower or Grass Knot offer a bit of extra coverage. I'm leaning a bit more towards Flamethrower due to the anti-Bug coverage, and Ice/Steel-type coverage doesn't hurt. It'd also be fun to use if I ended up going with Sunny Day on my Typhlosion.

    Suddenly considering Thunder Wave and/or Nasty Plot on Slowking, but not sure which moves I'd place them over. Calm Mind is an option, too. @_@


    Flygon @ Life Orb/Yache Berry
    Naive/Hasty
    Levitate
    252 Speed EVs and split Attack EVs

    -Outrage
    -Flamethrower/Fire Blast
    -Earth Power
    -U-Turn

    Mixed sweeper, w00t. This Flygon is meant to hit fast and hit hard. Outrage is an incredibly ruthless and useful attack, even if it does lock you in and cause confusion. Flamethrower or Fire Blast offer a counter for Ice-type Pokemon. Earth Power lacks the offensive might of Earthquake but makes up for it with dealing nice damage against those Steel and Rock-types who have very low Special Defenses. And finally, U-Turn gives Flygon a nice hit-and-run attack. Debating whether to choose a Life Orb for the extra damage or Yache Berry for the extra defense.



    Last Pokemon finally, and one I have two potential sets for. Breloom offers a much needed status inducing attack in the form of Spore, but the question is how to use it...

    Breloom @ Toxic Orb
    Adamant
    Poison Heal
    Full Attack and Speed EVs

    Spore
    Mach Punch/Stone Edge
    Focus Punch/Stone Edge
    Seed Bomb

    Tactic here would be to start with Spore, then either hit the opponent with Seed Bomb or a Focus Punch. Mach Punch would also offer nice STAB priority attack by chance one was needed. Having two Fighting-type attacks in this case could be redundant, tho, and Stone Edge would give me a Flying-type counter and something to neutral damage Pokemon like Gengar, Weezing, etc. Just not quite sure which attack I'd place it over.

    And now, the second Breloom...

    Breloom @ Choice Scarf
    Adamant/Jolly
    Effect Spore
    Full Attack and Speed EVs

    Spore
    Drain Punch/Superpower
    Stone Edge
    Seed Bomb

    Scarf + Spore would give me a quick status ailment. Drain Punch would offer a decently hitting attack with the potential for HP regain, but Superpower would hit harder. Stone Edge provides coverage and deals good damage if it hits, and Seed Bomb is for STAB. Not much more to it than that.



    And that's it. Don't worry too much about any glaring typing weaknesses. The point of this team is to use some of my favourites that I haven't already raised for competitive battling, and many of them could be used interchangeably with my current competitive teams.

    Any comments or advice are appreciated. :)
     
    #1 Linkachu, Jul 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2013
  2. Stark

    Friend Code:
    5284-2169-6918
    I'll just go down the list and point out some things that might give you another option :)

    Typhlosion is nice, about as good a moveset as you can get because of its nonexistent movepool. Some of the non-Eruption Fire STABs are Lava Plume for the extra burn or Heat Wave for the doubles flexibility, though thats down to choice.

    Zangoose... I guess thats about as much a set as you can get, although it does get Endure/Flail which might be some fun :p Probably more reliable to go with the set you have however.

    Armaldo gets Superpower as well, which might be some fun for the last slot. Absol also gets Superpower, which is nice for anti-Steels which would otherwise plague it.

    Slowking we're currently discussing in chat so I'll move on :p

    Flygon. I suppose another mixed alternative would be to run things like Draco Meteor, Fire Punch, Earthquake and U-Turn. It gets Stone Edge as well if you want to go down this route.

    Breloom looks pretty solid as is. I'd probably take the first set you have there, but with Substitute and Stone Edge over Seed Bomb and Mach Punch, though just ditching the Mach Punch for Stone Edge works nicely too. If you really want to take the Sub route with Poison Heal and whatnot, there is Leech Seed to consider as well.

    Hope this provokes some thought for you :)
     
  3. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

    Friend Code:
    4167-4498-1464
    Here we go! 8D

    Lava Plume I'd consider, but I think I'd avoid Heat Wave due to the lower accuracy. Just a question of how Lava Plume would stack up against FT/FB then.

    Hmm... Could do Salac Berry, Endure/Flail, but not sure if fits my style. I'll definitely keep it in mind, tho. Thanks LoN ^^

    Armaldo I think I'd avoid Superpower with, just because EQ makes a good alternarive without the stat lowering, but as for Absol... huh. Probably wouldn't use it twice, but you're right about the Steel-types. Would fit nicely over Megahorn, too. Just gotta be careful about the stat drop... *Ponders this*

    The main reason I'm avoiding EQ on Flygon is because another of my Pokemon already has it (but that's a seeeeekrit :X). Still, that set would allow me to tailor its EVs more towards a physical set while still giving Draco Meteor room to rip stuff apart. No added confusion either. Definitely going to take this into consideration.

    Problem with Sub/Leech Seed/Spore is that I have only one slot for an attack, and I'd rather that not happen (and Spore's gotta stay). :X Going over Seed Bomb with another attack is something I've considered... Just wondering if that would leave me more open to being walled. I'll look into it. :)

    Thanks for the reply, LoN! Certainly did give me a few things to think about. ^^
     
  4. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    Let's get started:

    - Typhlosion generally likes either Eruption or Fire Blast for his primary STAB. Eruption especially makes Typhlosion stand out from a Fire-type crowd that overshadows him to some extent with their superior movepools - it works well with a Choice Scarf if you like. Power Herb + SolarBeam is a handy surprise combination, but it may lose its luster a bit if opponents become aware of it and learn to bait it - it's only good once. Substitute + Focus Punch is a decent option as well, but overall Typhlosion has little to go with in its movepool. Fire Blast is probably the most reliable STAB option, also keep in mind that Eruption hits both foes as well, like Heat Wave.

    - Zangoose may want a better STAB than Quick Attack here, although the move is undoubtedly very handy. The Endure + Flail + Salac set is an extremely damaging one if employed correctly, but with all the priority revenge-killers and Choice Scarf users running rampant nowadays it's not anywhere near as potent as it was back in its glory days of Gen III. It still works though if employed at the right time in the match. Sash + Flail can work though for something a bit easier to do.

    - Armaldo's definitely got some interesting moves there - Rock Blast + Earthquake will give you very nice coverage, better than that of X-Scissor and Rock Blast, but I'd keep Rock Blast for your STAB since it can trash Substitute users very nicely. Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock are somewhat mandatory, so Rock Blast, Earthquake, Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock are my personal recommendations for Armaldo. Leftovers for his item will help him stay alive, so I'd recommend that.

    - Absol would probably prefer Adamant since he's slow anyway and Sucker Punch will be his buffer to get around that as opposed to his nature. I've already discussed this guy with you, so that's all there is to say - Super Luck is better than Pressure here by the way.

    - Slowking is one funky Pokemon. Choice Specs + Trick could be a very fun option for you to trip up a wall with since you've got all those attacks on your set. It's hard to pick just three though, although I personally would have to give the nod to Surf, Ice Beam and Grass Knot here since Flygon's bringing the fire already, and those three give you perfect coverage as well. Yawn's a pretty cool option also.

    - Flygon would probably do better with the Life Orb here since he does need the damage boosting to aid him a bit when attacking. Split-attack EVs is something I'd have to say no to here given that Flygon's base stats are too low, and you're likely to spread yourself out a bit too thin. I'd instead opt for a 75:25 ratio split between the two offenses, with the 75 going in favour of whichever stat you're likely to see the most use out of (Sp.Attack in this case I'd say.)

    - I thinking the Scarf Breloom will serve you better here thanks to that super-fast Spore he's packing. You'll want Superpower over Drain Punch for that, since Drain Punch's horrid PP really limits its use in general, and Breloom will generally favour the more powerful option. Stone Edge and Seed Bomb are fine - they can stay. I'd still stick with Poison Heal on the Scarfer though, since it gives you someone to block Toxic if it's aimed at anyone in your team (Armaldo and Slowking most likely.)

    A bit brief here, sort-of tired, but that should help you out a little.
     
  5. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
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    Friend Code:
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    KoL replies are always appreciated. :)

    My concern with the Sub/Focus Punch set is her nature and stats (Modest, Attack IV 17). Would it be effective enough to bring attention to it in this case EV-wise? I'm also curious what you meant concerning the primary STAB. Originally I was thinking to have Eruption as the primary until she was damaged, and then begin using Fire Blast. Would that be a bit too redundant?

    Duely noted about the Power Herb set, too.

    That's my main worry with the Endure set, aye. Shadow Sneak can't touch Zangoose, but a whole horde of others can. That said, if I wasted a turn using Swords Dance and then started attacking after already being damaged a priority attack might still be enough to take me out. =/

    Me thinks I'll do some damage calculations to see just how much a STAB, Swords Danced Quick Attack would do. Probably not as much as I'd like. XP

    If I were to place Flail on the set + the Sash, which attack would you suggest dropping in place of Flail? You made no mention of Swords Dance so I'm wondering what your opinion on it in Zangoose's case would be.


    Mmm... This I could work with happily. I do like my Bug-type STAB, but Absol already covers the Psychics and Breloom can take care of the Dark-types. Having EQ on Armaldo would match nicely with Flygon having Earth Power, too. Sounds great. I'll take it all. :)

    Duely noted. Adamant always did seem like the better choice, and that small speed boost probably isn't gonna help. Might as well beef my attack up more. ^^

    So many choices... XD

    Choice Specs + Trick sounds like a lot of fun actually. I can take advantage of it myself when necessary, and can screw around with the opponent if it's not. Yawn I do love but I think I might pass on it for now simply because Breloom's bringing the Spore, but Trick... Hehe. It'll be my first Trick set. Here's hoping I can use it properly. :p

    Sounds good. Considering Flygon naturally has a higher attack stat it does make more sense to fatten up its Special Attack. Life Orb should help aid both stats, too. Thanks. ^^

    I was kinda siding towards that guy, too. The set felt more solid in general, and I can't say no to a fast Spore. I'll just need to do some calculations to determine what it will and won't be able to outspeed with Adamant + Scarf verses Jolly + Scarf.

    Smart idea re: Poison Heal, too. Definitely doesn't hurt having a bit of Toxic protection around. I'll take it! ^_^

    What you call "brief" I call invaluable advice. :p
    Thanks again, KoL! ^^
     
    #5 Linkachu, Jul 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2013
  6. Ruko

    Ruko Bearded Trout Warrior

    Friend Code:
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    Typhlosion has a few options despite its tiny movepuddle.. unfortunately these are restricted by being modest with a bad Hidden Power and no option to rebreed :X
    I've got this set you could try out if it strikes your fancy though.

    Typhlosion @ Salac Berry
    - Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    - Solarbeam
    - Focus Blast
    - Sunny Day / Substitute
    EVs: Full Special Attack, 172 Speed*, the rest into any combination of defensive stats as you see fit, or just max speed as well.
    *with a 31 Speed IV
    Typhlosion's defense is right on the line to survive most neutral attacks with ease, while still taking heavy damage. With some luck and proper placement, you can use this to set up Sunny Day to devastating effect. In one turn you set up a speed boost, Blaze, Sunlight and already have the passive STAB to Fire Blast/Flamethrower. Fire Blast hits 270 on the Power scale, Solarbeam needs no charge and Focus blast... actually doesn't serve much purpose on this set and you should drop it for a second Fire STAB unless you can come up with a use for it :X

    EVs will allow you to outspeed +Speed Nature Electrode after Salac activates. What you do with the excess EVs is entirely up to personal preference and what you think Typhlosion will face. If you decide full speed and realize it's getting OHKO'd most of the time, it would probably be a good idea to shift to a more defensive investment.


    Aside from this, I would vote choice scarf despite the further restriction of its movepool.
     
  7. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
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    Sorry for taking so long to reply. Was busy all day today. =(

    Thanks for the post, Ruko. I hadn't even considered using a Pinch berry as the held item, and it does sound like it could be an interesting idea going by your comments. The EV spread is interesting to consider, too. I've currently trained her with full Sp. Attack and Speed, so I'll test things out to see how things go. If it's not working as well I'll try out your EV spread.

    After discussing it with you and KoL, me thinks I will go for Fire Blast over Flamethrower. I enjoy my accuracy, but the extra power is certainly nice when it counts.

    I think I'd take the Sunny Day set if I went with the Salac Berry, just to give Solar Beam better usage. Might leave Focus Blast on for now until I can think of something better, although I guess Substitute may be a viable option in that situation... I'll test things. ^^

    Thanks again for all of the replies you guys! I pretty well have all of my Pokemon decided now aside from Zangoose now, so any extra tips or insights on it I'd love to hear. Otherwise, it should be fun raising this team and testing them out in battle. =)
     
    #7 Linkachu, Jul 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2013
  8. Ruko

    Ruko Bearded Trout Warrior

    Friend Code:
    0473-7895-5364
    Focus Blast - Gave a deep analysis to types and coverages for this one, and came up with three times it's useful.
    - So long as neither sunlight nor Blaze are in play, Focus Blast will deal more damage than Fire Blast to Normal and Dark types.
    - It will cover Rock types outside of sunlight [assuming they you don't miss and get slaughtered by their STAB]
    - And the reason to keep: Heatran [Flash Fire in general, really]. Not only does it utterly wall solarbeam and absorb fire, but will turn your sunlight against you and could just as easily sweep through your team as this Typhlosion could your opponents. Lack of Blaze, but much better typing, coverage and defenses :X
     
  9. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
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    That's enough reason for me to keep it on. While I've had it miss before, I've also had it hit when it counts, too. :X

    Thanks again Ruko! ^^
     
  10. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    Keep in mind that Fire / Fighting / Grass is resisted entirely by Dragon/Flying-types such as Dragonite and Salamence, and Fire/Flying-types like Charizard and Moltres. While 'Zard and Moltres both get savaged by Stealth Rock which makes them less of an issue, Dragonite and Salamence will pose a far greater risk to you, especially since both can set up Dragon Dance in your face if you aren't careful.

    While you won't get anything better than what's been suggested, that is a flaw in the coverage that is definitely worth keeping in mind. Beggars can't be choosers though, so you have to make do with what you're given with Typhlosion.
     
  11. Linkachu

    Linkachu Hero of Pizza
    Staff Member Administrator

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    The only alternative I can think of is Hyperbeam, but that obviously has some drawbacks, too. Instead of being walled by the Dragons/Moltress/Zard, you're once again walled by Heatran and Rock-types without the sun going.

    I pray that move tutors in Gen 5 give Typhlosion a couple of better attacks. Poor dear. :p
     
  12. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    A potential (but unconventional) choice here would be Lava Plume for your STAB attack. While its power is lower than that of Flamethrower (80 Power without STAB, same as Shadow Ball if that gives you an idea of what to expect from it in terms of damage) it comes with a 30% chance of burning your opponent if it hits them (100% accuracy, so no worries there.) Even if they do wall you, Dragonite and Salamence wouldn't dare try to use you as set-up bait since a burn would cripple the both of them. It certainly makes switching in on Typhlosion's STAB attack a much more risky proposition, even for Water-types such as Swampert and Gyarados.
     

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