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Gotta Debate 'Em All!

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Jayblade

Previously AceTrainerGold
I am fond of both of their designs, I slightly prefer Scizor’s sleeker design. I’d say it’s in at least my top 5 for both bug and steel.

On the topic of bug types, I think Yanmega is super underrated design wise. I’ve not got much to say on it other than that really, it’s just really underrated.
 
D

Deleted member 284192

So when you brought up Yanmega, I realized that I have never been so neutral about a Pokemon's design. There is nothing I hate, but nothing I particularly like. It was really eating at me, so I have done my best to define what I like and what I don't like.

What did I come up with? The fins/spikes it has are kind of cool. They remind me of a dinosaur I guess. Other than that, nothing about the rest of it's features strikes me as charming. And then it hit me. I realized why this Pokemon doesn't do it for me. It just looks like an overgrown bug, and bugs (at least when you look at their features up close) are vile hideous creatures. That might just be me though due to some mild childhood trauma that I am not going to get into here.

Anyways, looking back at some of my favorite bug Pokemon (Butterfree, Ledyba, Swadloon, Heracross), while they have bug features, they are not limited to the horrific and emotionless faces that real life bugs have, which I unfortunately can not say the same for Yanmega.

But that's not all. As I was looking into Yanmega, I had begun to realize I am really not all that fond of the gen 4 Pokemon. Not only do I think the Sinnoh dex is clustered with too many new evolutions and pre-evolutions for Pokemon that simply have good enough design as is (some major examples are Magmar and Electabuzz; Of course, there are some evolutions I think are good), but Gen 4’s bug game is really weak.

I’ll start off by mentioning some of the good ones. By that I mean Kricketot and Combee are adorable, but Kricketot also evolves into Kricketune (and sorry to the many Kricketune fans out there) which is quite a downgrade in terms of design quality. Combee is a high tier Pokemon, and while I wanna complain about the fact that Vespiquen has an expressionless bug face, it’s also a really cool Pokemon so it gets a pass. You’ve then got the absolutely terrible Burmy/Wormadam/Mothim line. I’m gonna mention Drapion and Skorupi since Drapion is pretty much a bug Pokemon. I don’t really like either of them. I’m not a fan of how they designed the tails and Drapion’s arms. It’s too much.

But I don’t wanna just end it there. There are a lot more Pokemon from gen 4 that I wanna call out. I don’t like any of the starters, but it’s not even like I particularly hated any of them like I do with some of the gen 6 starters. I just found the designs so uninteresting that I grew to hate them. I don’t want to dislike them, I just can’t find anything I really like about them. I finally found out why I don’t like the Luxray line. It’s because it looks like they are wearing pants. Seriously, go look at Shinx and tell me otherwise. Pachirisu is the lamest Pikachu clone I’ve ever seen. Also too many legendaries, and I really only like two, maybe three out of the list of them. There were actually times a few years back when I would find out another legendary from these games existed.

But to end this post on a high note, some of my favorites from gen 4 are Bidoof, Buizel, Croagunk, Lucario, Chatot, Drifloon and Rampardos. Jeez I went on way longer than I initially intended.
 

Jayblade

Previously AceTrainerGold
I see what you mean, though I’m a huge fan of Yanmega’s colours and I find the design cool in general. Though I can definitely why you’re not a huge fan. I like all of those gen 4 Pokemon you mentioned btw. Lucario and Floatzel (you mentioned Buizel, but still) are both some of my all time favourites.

I have a opinion that may be unpopular, but it’s nto exactly about a Pokemon. It’s that I think that not liking a Pokemon because it’s overrated, or a lot of people like it, is a kind’ve weak reasoning. Of course you can think a Pokemon isn’t overrated, but that doesn’t mean you have to hate it. I’d say that: Charizard and Lucario are overrated, but I still really like both of them. Though I must admit, I used to fall into this. I despised Blaziken just because of how popular it was compared to the other Hoenn starters, and while I don’t love Blaziken, I don’t simply hate it now just because other’s like it.
 

Jayblade

Previously AceTrainerGold
I can’t lie, I’ve always liked Ash. He can be very incompetent at times, but either way I still enjoy his character. And if I’m being honest I tend to prefer when he’s dumb and goofy, rather than be mostly serious and have no personality like he did in xy. Just seems out of character.

One character I don’t get the hype over isn’t Serena. I don’t dislike her at all, but I just don’t get what made her so special, except for the fact she had feelings for Ash.
 
D

Deleted member 284192

Yeah, I'd feel the same as Jay. I only really watched the anime from the Indigo League to Johto Journeys, and I'd see an episode here and there from the Advanced series or Diamond and Pearl series. I mostly only know Ash's character when he was a sh*t-for-brains goofball kid who couldn't figure out type advantage. I actually really liked how Ash played that role, and I consider it balanced by the fact that he had Brock and Misty there to explain why he was dumb.

When I go back to those older series, Ash kind of reminds me of when I was an equally stupid kid playing Fire Red and getting stuck on Misty because I didn't know how to go out and catch an Oddish for the grass typing.

Other than that, I really can't come up with any characters from the games or anime that I felt were over hyped. I'll get back to y'all if I do.
 

Cáscara Olas

Previously IExistToo
I don't think any of the characters were really over without reason but there are defiantly Pokémon that didn't deserve as much hype as they did. Charizard is defiantly over hyped, it got 2 mega forms and a gigantamax. Look I get it looks cool and has a pretty good design and I'm not judging if it's your favourite but the only other Pokémon to get 2 mega forms was mewtwo and he's a legendary with an amazing in depth backstory. Also being the only gen 1 starter in sword and shield showed an obvious bias toward it.
 

Jayblade

Previously AceTrainerGold
I love Charizard, it gets way too much love from gamefreak but I honestly don’t mind it that much. Though I agree it gets a bit much.

On the topic of characters and Pokemon too, I think Ash’s Charizard is still one of my favourites out of his collection. His Charizard is one of the main reasons I like Charizard so much. He had some pretty good character development, and I know some don’t like it, but I liked disobedient Charizard. It actually made sense he was disobedient too because in game some traded Pokemon may not obey you, and Charizard used to belong to another trainer. Also Ik levels don’t really exist in the anime outside of a few mentions, but I’d say Charizard was way too height level for Ash.
 

Cáscara Olas

Previously IExistToo
I agree with that but I think at least Bulbasaur and Squirtle should've evolved as well, when I first watched the anime I was waiting and waiting and it never came. It was really game freak just showing us what Pokémon is better and what starter to pick and I guess I just don't like being restricted.
 

Jayblade

Previously AceTrainerGold
I’m fine with at least Bulbasaur not evolving, as that is quite a big part of its character, the fact it didn’t want to evolve.

Squirtle could’ve evolved into Wartortle, but I think I’m fine with it as it is.
 

Cáscara Olas

Previously IExistToo
Forgot about that episode with the secret garden and just realised Gary had a Blastoise as well so them both having one might have been a bit weird.

But I still think a bark are has been overcompensated maybe not in the anime as much but definitely in other areas (the games)
 
I, personally, don't have a strong opinion one way or another. Yea, it's kind of annoying, but I really don't care. It's what sells the most. The more they see a specific Pokemon get popular, the more they'll tailor to that Pokemon.

Charizard and Mewtwo have a lot going for it. Two Mega Evolutions for each, the two Pokemon appearing in many box arts of different games as their mascots, and Charizard getting a Gigantamax form... It really is no surprise that the two more popular Pokemon were Gen I Pokemon. I mean, the reason why they are the most popular is because they are literally on everything, either by themselves or with Pikachu. It has been like that for years, especially when people start raving how awesome Mewtwo and Charizard were in Gen I and II. The next generation paved the way to make the two even cooler with one of them appearing in a really cool team from Mystery Dungeon Red/Blue Rescue Team.

It's been psychologically tested that the more you see something, usually it grows on you and you start to like it. Though, this usually has the opposite effect, as well. However, the positions of power the two Pokemon have been seen with in the anime and, subjectively (except for Mewtwo as that is not subjective at all) in the games, shows how badass they are. It is one of the reasons why people like them so much. A lizard with wings that breathes fire and an uber powerful genetic monster of a Pokemon who was used for evil now resides peacefully within a cave to get away from civilization? Yea, that's really dope, people will buy that, especially kids, who are the target audience.

I love both Pokemon, with the two being my favorites solely because I had watched the first and second generations of the anime and the First Movie and they had made an amazing role in the entirety of the series. I absolutely loved it. Psychologically, they were amazing. The amount of power they held gave me the want to wish fulfill my way into a deep fantasy realm within my brain to get away from reality. It's an escape and the more impressive they seem to be, the harder the wish fulfilling fantasy sucks you in.

Of course, when you get older your viewpoint tends to change, especially when you want to see your new favorites get the spotlight and they have been denied of this luxury. This usually leaves others to resent the company. I don't resent the company for this reason, as this is all a marketing stunt - a way to cash in on the super popular Pokemon everyone had heard of and known about. If they tried to showcase a Pokemon that nobody has heard before in marketing, it won't work as well and it wouldn't sell as hard compared to slapping a Pikachu, Eevee, Charizard, or Mewtwo with the merch.

Of course, they'll always sell other merch of other Pokemon, but the spotlight will always be at the Pikachu or Eevee or whatever popular Pokemon because that is how they sell more of the merch. A Chingling when Gen IV came out won't sell unless a Pikachu was next to it. This is also for parents who have likely not seen the Pokemon aside from the more popular ones like Pikachu or Charizard. Seeing the two creatures is a lot easier to see that the section in a store is for Pokemon, the thing their kid likes.

Like I said before, I don't have an opinion on the major attention the company gives and their marketing decision is ingenious and I don't fault them for using the cheap way to get more money. However, the spotlight tends to stick and we may get more and more versions of a certain Pokemon that may not be necessary. But it still works. It still hooks the younger audience, no matter what the veteran's views of this practice may be. I don't particularly like it, but it's effective. I love Charizard and Mewtwo and I still do. Though, I wished the spotlight shifted over to other Pokemon, like Dunsparce or Flygon, or the more forgettable Pokemon like Maractus.

Wow, this was way longer than I wanted it to be. XD whoops.

Also, the colors yellow, orange, and red are big striking colors that attract the person's attention. Food companies use this to catch people's attention. The combination of the two colors incite hunger (red) and happiness (yellow). The Pikachu is yellow, so it incites happiness especially to kids who are more susceptible to this subliminal messaging (unless they absolutely abhor the color yellow. XD)

Charmander looks adorable and some chose it because it looked really cute. While Bulbasaur and Squirtle are cute in their own right, Venusaur loses it's cute charm while Blastoise just looks like a badass turtle with cannons. However, dragons have always been a favorite among children and that's partially the reason why Charmander was chosen. Because Charmander was chosen for this reason, people had another reason to avoid Bulbasaur and to choose Squirtle instead.

But anyway, there. My two cents since I have been dying to say this for weeks and I have been waiting till the right time to say something.
 
I really like ludicolo ,but I don't know many people that share my interest in ludicolo. Its a really interesting type matchup. water/grass. Plus its so happy looking ,and dances a lot. Realistically who wouldn't want such a cheerful happy pokémon? It might not be cute like togepi or azurill but I still think its super adorable.

Another thing I really like that doesn't get much attention. Fossil pokémon. Fossil pokémon are amongst my favorite pokémon of all time. These are pokémon that died long long ago. So long ago that they turned into rocks. Through advanced technology scientists managed to revive these long forgotten pokémon. How cool is that?! I get it. Some people don't like the designs, lack of competitiveness ,or the fact that most of them are rock type. Personally I like the idea of having a Indiana Jones style character. Fossil pokémon fit perfectly with that type of character. I've always thought fossil pokémon were real cool. The only fossil pokémon I don't outright like are the new gen 8 ones. Yet I kinda like them. I hope if gen 9 or 10 decides to make new fossil pokémon they bring back the rock type.

I can overlook the no rock type with the gen 8 fossil pokémon cause the gen 8 fossil pokémon are a reference to the time archaeologists mixed and matched bones in wrong orders to look as if they discovered new dinosaurs. Its a cool concept. They removed rock type cause they wanted to mix types of the pokémon they mix-matched. If pokémon could have a third typing I do think the gen 8 pokémon would have rock as their third typing.
 
D

Deleted member 284192

Well damn, @Merciless Medic I respect how hard you went in. Can't say I have much to add.

But to move on to Ludicolo, it is a near perfect Pokemon in my eyes. It's got too much charm. I haven't really ever seen Ludicolo as overlooked but now that you mention it, I suppose people don't speak about it as much as as that Pokemon deserves.

The topic of fossil Pokemon is interesting, and I'm curious to hear how people feel. My favorites would have to be Rampardos or Archeops, and I think all of the gen 8 fossilmons are pretty funny. They're still pretty questionable, and it does throw me off a bit that all of a sudden fossil pokemon are no longer rock types. I don't think the change is a bad idea, but the inconsistency definitely bugs me.
 

Jayblade

Previously AceTrainerGold
Archeops and Rampardos are really cool. Aerodactyl will forever be my favourite fossil, due to the fact that it used to be my favourite Pokemon before I got my first game. I really like Armaldo too. Honestly I’m fine with the fossils not getting the rock type this time around, I feel like before the rock type limited certain Pokemon from getting another type. Though I agree it’s pretty out of nowhere that up until now the fossils have had rock type, and now they don’t.
 
My favorite has been bastiodon. Originally it wasn't. I remember playing gen 4 looking for cranidos fossils cause I wanted cranidos. Not Shieldon. Anyways I reluctantly took shieldon. Naturally of course it eventually evolved into bastiodon. It was okay. Kinda cool. I just wanna start off by saying my bastiodon destroyed the competition! It even helped me beat the elite four. Over time it kinda grew on me and now I really like the design and everything.
 

Cáscara Olas

Previously IExistToo
I don't like how all fossils are rock-type (Excluding gen 8 fossils) that's why the gen 8 fosses are probably my favourite of the bunch. Arctozolt is my all time favourite because its just so damned cute with its oversized feet and body and tiny arms and head. Although that doesn't mean all the other fossils are bad as I really like Aerodactyl, Amouras, Tyrantrum and the lord Omanyte.
 
Fossil pokémon as rock type makes sense. They were dead for thousands of years. Their bodies became rocks. When the fossil pokémon were brought back to life it gave a sense of just how long they had been gone. Because after all this time the damage was irreversible. The rock typing is apart of what they are now. They aren't the same pokémon they were long ago ,and the rock typing is proof that turning into fossils has forever changed them. I like fossil pokemon as rock type because no matter how advanced technology becomes there are some things you just cannot change or fix.
 

Cáscara Olas

Previously IExistToo
If they still had rock-like pars on them like mega Aerodactyl tham yes it would but what if the had a second typing like Cradilly or
Lileep. They might have been poison type or something else. Do they loose that because they used to be rocks? I would be happier about it if these fossil Pokémon that are rock type's still had something to do with the rock typing.

For me its like if you put a rose in your hair you can whip the vines at someone if they attacked you but when you take it out there isn't a rose to whip anymore. It just doesn't make sense to me.
 
They might not physically have big rocks on the outside ,but it would still be in their genetics right? (This is hypothetical of course)

If pokémon like Lileep/Cradilly were poisonous they would have three types. Look at Skorupi for example. Its poison/bug. Drapoion is poison/dark. Drapion is still a bug right? It lost its bug type for dark type. Theres other examples too(I'm only going to list two to keep this post short) Skrelp losing water type when it becomes Dragalge ,and Surskit also loses water typing when it becomes Masquerain.

The fossils pokémon that lost a type are similar in this regards.
 

Cáscara Olas

Previously IExistToo
Yeah but dragon doesn't have the bug type. No Pokémon have more than 2 types except Pokémon that change type like Silvally and Arceus and even then they aren't 3 types at once. Drapion lost its bug typing because the creators thought dark was a better fit. and you could argue that fossil Pokémon should fit in with the rock typing and I'm not saying all of them shouldn't. It's just for Pokémon that had different typings (like Rampardos being fighting) should they still have the rock type? If a Rampardos has no rock features but loves to fight and headbutt I think it should be a fighting and not rock.

Would you argue that Arctovish should loose its ice or water typing because it used Tobe a rock?

Also if you think about it the Pokemon cards say that fossil Pokémon evolve from the fossils. What if the fossils themselves were rock type and then when they evolved they lost their rock typing. It makes so much more sense for me. (Also if I'm getting too worked up, sorry I tend to do that a lot.)
 
Gen 8 seem to be a special case. Like I mentioned earlier
the gen 8 fossil pokémon are a reference to the time archaeologists mixed and matched bones in wrong orders to look as if they discovered new dinosaurs.
You look at the gen 8 fossils ,and its obvious they mix matched the parts. In gen 8 all the fossils are special because they are two halves of a pokémon that don't belong together ,but were mashed together anyways. Essentially making a strange new combination. They are combining the main types of these two pokémon together. Thus removing the rock type because no third typing. I like the gen 8 fossils. I'm not hating on them. They are cool. With that in mind I don't believe Rampardos would get this treatment because rampardos isn't two pokémon mixed together.

If you really wanted to make the gen 8 pokémon rock types you would take whatever typing its legs were away. By making the gen 8 pokémon rock types you take away their special nature of being two fossil pokémon merged together. The other generations do not have this as a trait.
 
If you mixed dracozolt's electric head with electirc legs it should have rock as a second typing? Honestly I gotta agree it kinda does look like it should be pure electric type had they pieced it together correctly. I still do kinda believe it would have rock as a second type.
(I wanna point out I do have a love of rock pokémon so seeing fossil pokémon have rock type is like seeing a normal type on route one ,or an electric rodent. It's something I just enjoy seeing)
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Cáscara Olas

Previously IExistToo
I see your point when you say that fossils should be rock-types and I don't actually mind that about them. I just don't like it when they take another type away. So Aerodactyl being rock type is fine for me but when Lileep isn't Poison type it makes me feel as though these Pokémon are different to when they where alive thousands of years ago. They are still the same but they have now been a rock.
 
I think what he was meaning was if you took away the special dragon DNA that makes up the legs, then the legs wouldn't have anything going for it and it would be a partial Rock-Type.

My idea on fossil Pokemon are not exactly too biased. I like their designs and it harks back to the past of who they were. The Omanyte, Kabuto, Lileep, Anorith, and Tirtouga lines were fossils who lived in the prehistoric waters, the Shieldon, Cranidos, Amaura, Tyrunt, and Archen lines lived on land (with the Archen line also living in trees), and Aerodactyl was the prehistoric king/queen of the skies for how terrifyingly dangerous it was as it was an apex predator. The four different fossils in Galar were two different land dinos and two different water-based dinos being mixed and matched by some crazy scientist in the hopes of making cool Pokemon. They are one of the saddest in my opinion with how much they suffer when revived. Arctozolt is always shivering and can't move as fast due to that. Dracozolt is always in pain. Arctovish can't eat. Dracovish can't breathe on land despite having no fins to swim with and being planted on the end of a tail. They would be Rock-Types because the scientific experiments and instruments of reviving fossils have a funny thing of combining the fossil properties with the DNA of the Pokemon that resides within, destroying the DNA that had been there and the rocky fixtures and skin were then replacing the lost remnants of its DNA. This is why Lileep is not Poison-Type. It doesn't have the DNA to make it a Poison-Type and what would be the DNA for making it a Poison-Type is either covered over or is replaced by rock from the fossil, causing the Pokemon's DNA to use the rock and the materials in it to make a strangely organic and inorganic creature. The Kabuto and Anorith line would have been a Bug/Water-Type, and the Lileep line would have been either Grass/Water or Grass/Poison. Shieldon may have been Normal/Steel while Cranidos would have been pure Normal.

The Gen 8 Pokemon are sad because while the rock portions of the fossils were taken out by the superior technology the crazy lady scientist had, she fused the fossils together that shouldn't have been. I'm not a fan of her for this.
 

Cáscara Olas

Previously IExistToo
Why would Lileep have lost the DNA to be poison type though. Nothing was changed to its DNA during the revival process. I understand you thoughts on the gen 8 fossil's and do agree but why would any of their DNA change during revival. This topic isn't a thing that would happen in real life but in other media the dinosaurs never change DNA wise or in any other way. So why would Pokémon that weren't tampered with during the revival stage change in typing?
 
It's called faulty tech. Since it worked the first time, they didn't do much to change it to make it better. And DNA is sometimes lost, either partially or completely in real fossils today. In other media, they are in charge of how complete their revival of fossils are. For Pokemon, I have a sneaking suspicion its "oh, hey it worked, but they feel kind of rocky. And they seem to have the Rock-Typing, as well. Should we make the system better? No? Err... Okay, well it worked, so might as well. We got other things to worry about"

That kind of thing. xD And who knows if they were tampered with during the revival stage. Nobody knows, but it is likely the petrifying into rock changed it or the tech fused the fossil with the rock surrounding the fossil.
 

Cáscara Olas

Previously IExistToo
Think about it. If nearly every fossil Pokémon was rock-type wouldn't someone get suspicious about faulty tech. And Pokémon are animals so there must be at least some group of people that noticed this. Saying that nobody could connect the dots is like saying no-one would notice if all the Unova Pokémon had giant bright red orbs floating around them at all times. It just doesn't make any sense.

And did the revival really work. Do you think every Tyrunt that falls asleep will wake up and see rocks protruding from it and be like. "Cool, got spikes now." I'm inclined to believe not.
 
To be fair archaeologists are almost never shown in the anime/games. So hearing anyone talk about them is extremely rare. I have no doubt that many scientists have already connected the dots ,but this isn't a subject touched on because pokémon hasn't explored the scientific reasoning in pokémon very much.

I'm sure a revived tyrunt would notice its different. If it can still remember what its life was like thousands of years ago before it died. Even if it could regain all its memories back(I doubt it) ,but if it could. It's not like it can just explain how it feels to scientists. It has no way of telling people that it didn't always have spikes.
 
It is likely that people have noticed, but are powerless to do anything about it. People would care and there would likely be those trying to work their magic. It could also be that when they tried to make it better, the Pokemon seemed to be still inclined to having the Rock-Typing. With nothing left to do, they probably decided that no matter how hard they tried, reviving a fossil into a sentient Pokemon is the most they can do.

Besides, Tyrunt don't really have rocky protrusions, but its skin would be more rock-like. It seems like the Pokemon just have rocky exteriors (unless they are the Omanyte line >.>) and their skin have been coated over with the rocky substance. This is just from my understanding of them. I don't really see rock protrusions or the like. More like the rocky outside of the fossil had embedded in the Pokemon as it was revived, coating them.

From my understanding though, there aren't really a whole lot of archaeologists (unless you include Ruin Maniacs as a part of that). The only mention of any archaeological findings or whatnot was from Ruins of Alph (from my memory alone) and even then people were unable to open the chambers in the four puzzles and have the requirements to open up the special rooms and get all the Unown (which is why they handed it off to the first able bodied kid they found. XD)

But I do agree with ThAtGuY. If they do understand Pokemon, it is likely that (from what I have found) many scientists are nice to Pokemon but they aren't all that keen in helping them. Just as long as something works, it will be done over and over again. Some scientists tend to go over and beyond and make it comfortable for those that are in their experiments while others go about this in a very disturbing way for the SCIENCE!! And they don't care about the lives they are impacting.
 

Cáscara Olas

Previously IExistToo
Isn't the fact that trainers can feel what their Pokémon are thinking a big part of The Pokemon series and movies. And people have Tyrunt's as partners, just think of he rock gym leader in kalos.

And also while we are on the topic of the anime what about Pokémon that were never fossilised. In the first series they found Pokémon underground that were never fossilised and would've never had their DNA changed to become rock types.
 
I don't think of the kalos gym leader ,but then again I am an oddball... As for trainers feeling their pokémons thoughts that sounds like something you'd say symbolically. I have no doubt that a trainer who spends enough time can get a good understanding of their pokémon's emotions. You know when your pokémon is happy or angry based off its body language ,and the way it acts. A trainer who has spent much time with their pokémon understands what personality type their pokémon have because they have seen how they react and behave.

As for pokémon found in deep underground caves I'm to assume your suggesting these pokémon never died? If they were not rock types then then they wouldn't be rock types now. There is a pokémon episode where Ash finds fossil pokémon in a deep cave and they are all presumably rock types. (kabuto line, omastay line ,and aerodactyl) If those pokémon were never fossilized ,and their ancestors were not rock type then they shouldn't be rock type either. If their ancestors weren't rock type. I'm not entirely sure what to say about this.
 

Cáscara Olas

Previously IExistToo
Aerodactyl's ancestors could very well be rock type like how Steelix is but it is only shown when is mega evolves. But as for the others I feel like they shouldn't be so if somebody caught this Omastar and used it in battle it would be a different species of Omastar to the revived fossil. So maybe the revival process evolves The Pokemon in some weird way and changes its typing. If that were the case I would be fine with these fossils being rock type.
 
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