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Gen V Sand Team

Discussion in 'The Doctor's Clinic' started by Weeds, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. A Gen V Sand team!? Never heard about one of those before!

    Well yeah, I've decided to go for a Sand team on Pokémon Online, and I'll most likely be using a similar one (without all the perfect IV's, of course) once I clear up my Wi-Fi and get into this competitive battling fo cereals. I just want some general opinion and help with one of 'em.

    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Sand Stream
    252 HP/252 Atk/4 SAtk
    -Fire Blast
    -Dragon Tail
    -Stealth Rock

    Obvious Ttar lead is obvious. As long as he gets the sand up, his job is pretty much done. Rocks are always neat to have as well, of course. Pursuit for Chandelure and the likes, Fire Blast for defensive Steels, Dragon Tail for switches. Works nicely when the rocks are up.

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
    Iron Barbs
    4 Atk/252 Def/252 SDef
    0 Spd IV's
    -Gyro Ball
    -Leech Seed
    -Power Whip

    Ferrothorn is my bulky water counter, and I don't like it very much. I've been thinking about switching it, I have an option at the bottom of this post. Gyro Ball with Sassy and no Spd IV's rapes. Leech Seed on Ferrothorn is obvious, and Spikes is nice for switches. Power Whip is for those bulky waters, and a general powerful STAB move.

    Bronzong @ Light Clay
    252 HP/152 Atk/104 SDef
    0 Spd IV's
    -Light Screen
    -Gyro Ball

    Bronzong is my main special wall, with dual screens for awesome. I know the lack of Lefties is kinda bad, but with Item Clause Lefties isn't an option anyway. Dual screens and Light Clay for increased bulk on this guy and all other guys on my team. Gyro Ball for the same purpose as Ferrothorn, and EQ for coverage. Basic stuff.

    Garchomp @ Life Orb
    Sand Veil
    16 HP/252 Atk/240 Spd
    -Dragon Claw
    -Fire Fang
    -Swords Dance

    Aaah, le Chomp. The once Uber Pokémon now released to wreak havoc on the poor souls of OU. This thing is a beast (but unfortunately very uncreative) with perfect coverage with those moves. I prefer the double boost of SD over the dual boost of DD.

    Reuniclus @ Life Orb
    Magic Guard
    252 HP/252 Def/4 SAtk
    -Calm Mind
    -Focus Blast/Shadow Ball

    Righteo, a special tank with defensive bulk. Calm Mind for SAtk/SDef boosts (obviously), Recover to get back health taken while setting up, and Psychic for a powerful STAB move. I can't decide on Focus Blast/Shadow Ball though. Focus Blast hits Hydregion, a common Reuniclus counter, but Shadow Ball hits other Psychics, like Espeon, which is also a common Reuniclus counter. I'm currently running Focus Blast, but I have no idea which one to pick. Also dual Life Orb will be a problem with Item Clause, but in general it's more effective on Reuniclus, cos it doesn't get dat recoil with Magic Guard.

    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Poison Heal
    252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
    -Knock Off

    I love this Gliscor. It's my physical wall, obviously. Toxic Orb and Poison Heal are so sweet together. Knock Off is for switches and stuff, and also helps in knocking off Lum Berries and the likes. Fling is to get rid of Toxic Orb and Toxic the foe, upon which the power of Acrobatics doubles. Earthquake is just a generally powerful STAB move. As I said, I love this set. It screws stuff over so royally.

    Now, I noted that I wanted to switch Ferrothorn. I'd like a bulky water counter, cos I don't really have one. I'd prefer if it wasn't Cradily though, I already have two Ice weaknesses and I wouldn't like another. I also have this other, rahter different option.

    Probopass @ Leftovers
    Magnet Pull
    252 HP/252 Def/4 SAtk
    -Sunny Day/Magnet Rise
    -HP Fire
    -Magnet Rise/Explosion

    Now, before you start shooting me down, please, listen to what I have to say. I know Probopass is a really low tier (UU or NU, I'm not completely sure), but this one is very special. This Probopass is a Steel trapper. With all the Skarmorys and Ferrothorns running about, this guy can be funny to mess around with. Start off with Taunt, to cripple Skarmory and Ferrothorn. Then Sunny Day, if I have it, or Magnet Rise if I'm afraid of EQ. Then just HP Fire them down. Last move is basically filler. I know this sounds kinda weird, but I've seen this set in action, and it actually works surprisingly well.
  2. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    Normally I'd save the general comment for the end, but in this case I'm going to stick it at the top because WHERE THE FUCK IS EXCADRILL? No sandstorm team is complete without this guy.

    - The biggest problem I can see with T-Tar is his only STAB move being Pursuit, and the fact that you yourself admit he has no real role in the team once Sand Stream and Stealth Rock are down. A Pokemon should NEVER end up as dead weight after setting the field up, especially not something as good as Tyranitar (and this is the reason why lead Bronzong completely sucked in Gen IV too.) I'd re-assess this guy a little if I were you.

    - Ferrothorn and Tyranitar both having entry hazard moves isn't too hot when you have no spinblocker and Excadrill of all things is a Rapid Spinner. Consider Shed Shell for a possible hold item - more on that later.

    - There is no Item Clause anymore, so...well, yeah. One thing to be extremely wary of here is the amount of Fire-type special attackers Gen V has brought along, one of which can trap Bronzong and pick him off quite handily if you're not careful.

    - Yache Berry is better than Life Orb on Garchomp since it allows him to survive potential revenge-killers, and Fire Fang absolutely sucks (use Swords Dance, then Fire Fang Skarmory - point proven.) Fire Blast or Substitute works best on the third slot. Dual Chop and Outrage are other potential options for Dragon-type STAB.

    - Reuniclus with no Sp.Attack training? No Trick Room either? Reuniclus generally wants a Fighting-type move of some sort (either Focus Blast or HP Fighting) to deal with Tyranitar who otherwise just Crunches Reuniclus to death while suffering very little damage back. Not that it'd matter with no Trick Room anyway, but Reuniclus is more suited for attacking than trying to sponge off hits. Honestly, Trick Room and three attacks would solve your worries and make a much more solid set for Reuniclus, and he really wants a more offense-oriented nature and EV spread to make the most of this. The bulky set CAN work, but you've already got Bronzong, Ferrothorn and Tyranitar here - your team hardly needs more bulk as it stands.

    - Consider Taunt somewhere on Gliscor if you can, but you're good otherwise. Also, ROOST. Practically mandatory (Knock Off on the other hand isn't - do the math.)

    - Probopass is getting shot down, I'm sorry. Fact is, Probopass should only ever be catching out ignorant players who are too thick to realize Shadow Tag Chandelure wants to murder all their precious Steel-types and that Shed Shell is practically begging to be used by now, and your Probopass is little more than a terrible version of that. Speaking of which, why Probopass? Magnezone with HP Fire does this so much better (and doesn't need Taunt either I might add) and fits on a sandstorm team just fine too, assuming you didn't just go with Chandelure in the first place. There is no reason for this thing to be here, it sucks, end of story.

    Think you've got some work to do on this one.
  3. Magpie

    Magpie Feathered Overseer
    Staff Member Moderator

    Friend Code:
    Just as a note, but as far as I'm aware there is no way of having both Roost and the ability Poison heal on the same Gliscor thanks to Roost being a 4th Gen TM and Poison Heal being a Dream World ability~
  4. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    Sadly there isn't. Seems like the Poison Heal set suddenly became a whole lot worse.

    Sand Veil would probably be the more useful ability to have in that case given that this is a sandstorm team and all.
  5. I do see the point of using Sand Veil, but I still think I'd prefer Poison Heal. It gives me constant and more healing than Lefties per turn, protects me from statuses, gives my Fling a bad poisoning, and powers up Acrobatics after Flung.

    So I went with Taunt instead of Knock Off on Gliscor. Haven't tried it out yet, Imma do that tomorrow. I was also contemplating Swords Dance, any thoughts about that?

    No Excadrill on the team cos I don't like Excadrill and I just don't wanna use him. Silly, I know, but meh.

    I did have some more comments and questions about stuff, so I'll edit this post with that stuff tomorrow.
  6. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    You know Gliscor can learn Toxic anyway right?

    Honestly, I've never found Gliscor to be one to care about being status'd anyway from my experience using the thing - he's fast enough, powerful enough and bulky enough to simply work around any and all status effects thrown at him bar possibly some kind of Paraconfusion combination (which is very rare, especially on a Ground-type.) Roost + Leftovers + Sand Veil is FAR better than Poison Heal by itself on a sandstorm team.

    I wouldn't bother with Swords Dance on this Gliscor since Garchomp has that covered already.

    No Excadrill is your loss.
  7. Right, Imma just post again cos I can't see KoL's new post if I modify an older one.

    About Chandelure, I think it's banned on PO. It was really ccommon at some point (I had one myself), but I was told it was banned. After that there were virtually no Shadow Tag Chandelures anymore. I battled two yesterday, both with Flame Body. Therefore Shed Shell isn't as useful, and Pursuit is more useful.

    - Pursuit really is a nice option with all the choiced stuff like Latis and Gengar running around. It also hits the Chandelure noted above. I should have another STAB move, admittedly, but what to swap it for? Stealth Rock, maybe, and have Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn or Gliscor instead? I did have another Ttar set before, I can post that as well.

    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Sand Stream
    EV's have gone b0rked on this for some reason. What would a good EV spread be?
    -Focus Punch
    -Stealth Rock/Rock Slide/Stone Edge/Dragon Tail

    A SubPuncher, simply. Instead of Pursuiting switches you Sub them. Focus Punch does loads of damage and Crunch is a powerful STAB. The original fourth move was SR, but if I go for that on another Poke, Rock Slide/Stone Edge can be a secondary STAB. PHazing with Dragon Tail is always fun (especially with entry hazards).

    - What do you suggest instead of Spikes? Stealth Rock, probably, if I remove it from Ttar, but what do you suggest if I don't? I wen't for Rocky Helmet as hold item btw, it's worked really nicely with Iron Barbs, Sandstorm, Leech Seed, and (often) Life Orb on the opponent, so I think I'll stick with that.

    - Already covered Chandelure in the begginning of the post. Bronzong is good otherwise?

    - I see the point of Yache Berry and Fire Blast. The EV's and nature need to be changed on that then, any suggestions?

    - The point of the lack of SAtk is that you can make up for it with Calm Minds. With the bunch of Def EV's, even Ttar's Crunch, if memory serves, is a 3HKO, meaning Reuniclus can easily Recover and set up some more. I guess Some of those EV's could go into SAtk instead, but in general the only problem with it is Psychic's switching in on it.

    - The point with Fling over Toxic is getting rid of the toxic Orb and getting a 110 base power Acrobatics, with STAB not included. I could try out the Sand Veil set, but it does require some change. Toxic instead of Fling, Roost instead of Knock Off. Also Acrobatics will be pointless without Fling, so I'll need another move then.
  8. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    If Chandelure is banned on PO it sure as hell isn't banned anywhere else, and...to quote a certain "great one," if PO banned Chandelure then PO ABSOLUTELY SUCKS. Little wonder I never hear their name anywhere else...

    The move that is out of place on Tyranitar is Fire Blast. If anything, that should be replaced, and Pursuit, Dragon Tail and Stealth Rock should remain.

    If Tyranitar doesn't have Stealth Rock, then yes, Ferrothorn should get it. That shouldn't be necessary, mind you.

    Bronzong will also need to watch out for Haxorus if it ever shows up. Your team is actually quite vulnerable to axe-face at the moment, since one Dragon Dance could very well be enough to crush everyone here, including Ferrothorn and Reuniclus.

    For Garchomp, the only change to EVs you'll need is to max out his speed. I'm honestly shocked your current EV spread hasn't noticeably backfired already since it means you can never speed-tie regular Garchomp and will always get ploughed over by them if it's their Garchomp vs yours. Also, creativity is worthless if it's ineffective (and a lot of the time it tends to be,) so who cares right?

    Reuniclus is not surviving two Crunches from a Tyranitar with max Attack - ever. Even if it could, Crunch has a pretty high chance of dropping your Defense stat, which would allow Tyranitar to catch you out and finish you (keep in mind he's faster than you without Trick Room.) If you can survive one Crunch, Focus Blast is the move to use here - Espeon isn't anywhere near as dangerous to Reuniclus as Tyranitar is, although Psychic/Focus Blast loses to other Reuniclus as well and you can't damage Spiritomb at all. Coverage will be an issue with bulky Reuniclus, you'll have to decide who the lesser of two evils is and arrange your offense accordingly (HINT: It isn't Tyranitar.)

    As much as I like the Fling/Acrobatics idea, Gliscor's spreading himself too thin with this. You've trained him as a defender yet you're giving him an attacker's moveset, and while Gliscor can do both very well, he can't do both at once without losing out on some effectiveness in one of the roles. The old Sand Veil stallbreaker Gliscor is more what you want if you're looking for a wall, while Flying Gem Acrobatics with Attack training is best for attacker Gliscor. Also, if you're running Taunt, you'll want to move your Defense EVs into Speed to catch more opponents out.

    ...do I usually have to blow this much text on one thread or am I just tired?
  9. I dunno, I just haven't seen those Chandelures in a while. I did say I wanted to use this team for normal Wi-Fi battles though, so if I have a problem with Shadow Tag Chandelures there, I'll just switch the item to Shed Shell. No biggie.

    - Switched Fire Blast for Stone Edge rather than Rock Slide, because Ttar is pretty bulky and can take a miss from Stone Edge. EVs are max HP and Atk, 4 Def.

    - Ferrothorn and Bronzong left as they are.

    - Garchomp is the same, but with max Spd. Should the nature really be Jolly even with Fire Blast?

    - The ones I've battled have quite obviously not been max Atk. I'll keep Reuniclus as it is then.

    - I'll change Gliscor to that then. I do have Ferrothorn as an alternative physical wall, if I want to run the other set instead.

    And I don't know anything about how tired you are, but I really do appreciate the advice! ^^
  10. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    Hasty/Naive for Garchomp, yes. The only reason Fire Blast is there is to catch the likes of Skarmory and Ferrothorn on the switch and stuff, since Fire Fang does barely any damage to Skarmory and while it will likely kill Ferrothorn easily, you'll be suffering Iron Barbs damage in the process.
  11. Yup that's what i figured. Thanks a ton for the help!

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