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Gen IV Team Evaluation

Discussion in 'The Doctor's Clinic' started by BurnKirby, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. Okay, the other day, I opened up a thread for Swampert advive and Sho showed me a Swampert that I thought would work well. I did some thinking/testing and came up with this team. I think it works pretty well, but a few tweeks are probably in order. What do you think? Good? Bad? Okay?

    Also, if this post should be placed under my Advice for Swampert thread, please let me know and I'll move this Pokemon team there.

    Crobat@Quick Claw
    Jolly (+Speed -Special Attack)
    Inner Focus
    4 HP/252 Attack/252 Speed
    Move Set:
    -Brave Bird
    -Confuse Ray/Toxic/???

    My signature lead: Crobat. Crobat is mainly to help remove threatening status moves and dish out damage. The last slot I wanted to reserve for a status move, but any suggetions for it are open.

    Infernape@Life Orb
    Adamant (+Attack; -Sp. Attack)
    4 HP/252 Attack/252 Speed
    -Swords Dance
    -Flare Blitz
    -Slack Off
    -Close Combat/???

    Infernape's role is to switch in, Swords Dance, then sweep. Slack Off is for healing off damage from recoil and entry hazards. As for the last slot, I use Close Combat, but, like Crobat, the last move slot needs an improvement.

    Calm (+Special Defense; -Attack)
    252 HP/48 Sp. Attack/208 Sp. Defense)
    -Calm Mind
    -Protect/Baton Pass/???

    Espeon is mainly to absorb Special Attacks, Wish, then switch out to another team member to heal them. If possible, Espeon can also build up Calm Mind, then use Psychic to KO a foe or two. I know it's ineffective against dark-types, but again, it's more so for absorbing attacks then healing. The last slot's usage is debatable... (I'm bad at last slots...). I was thinking Protect so it can stall for Wish or Baton Pass so it can pass Calm Mind boosts unto an ally.

    Jolteon@Shuca Berry (or maybe Choice Scarf/Specs?)
    Volt Absorb
    Modest (+Sp. Attack; -Attack)
    252 Sp. Attack/4 Sp. Defense/252 Speed
    -Shadow Ball
    -Magnet Rise
    -Hidden Power Grass/Rain Dance

    Jolteon is the special sweeper. He comes in and obliterates foes with special attacks (or that's how I want it to work...) Jolteon is probably the one that needs to be looked at most.

    Relaxed (+Defense; -Speed)
    248 HP/212 Defense/48 Sp. Defense
    -Ice Beam
    -Stealth Rock

    Sho already gave me advice on this one... Anyway, Swampert is supposed to come in and set up Stealth Rock. After that, it Roars like crazy to constantly deal damage to foes. So far, this set has worked wonders and the only problem is grass-types. If you have any minor tweaks, you may post them below, but for major changes, I advice you go to my Advice for Swampert thread.

    Tyranitar@Razor Claw
    Sand Stream
    Careful (+Sp. Defense; -Sp. Attack)
    252 Attack/128 Defense/124 Sp. Defense
    -Rock Slide
    -Dragon Dance/???

    Tyranitar's moveset is meant to deal major physical damage (think of him as a back-up physical sweeper). The reason for Razor Fang is to raise the chances of flinching (which can come in handy in a pinch). I couldn't think of anything for slot four, so I thought Dragon Dance might be a good idea.

    I think this team works well, but needs some fixing to be great (hence, I put it here). Any changes I should make?
  2. Shocari

    Friend Code:
    This is a pretty good team so far, but I do have a few changes that I'd make:

    First, I'd make Swampert your lead. You'll want Stealth Rock out early, so the damage can build up and give your sweepers an easier time later on. Plus, you can always switch out to Crobat, who majorly resists Grass attacks.

    For Crobat, I'd consider U-Turn for the last slot, so you can dish out damage while safely retreating to a counter. Confuse Ray and Toxic work just as well, though, but U-Turn works amazingly.

    Infernape need a little readjusting. You'll be lucky to survive long enough to set up even one Swords Dance, as he's quite a frail little monkey, which also renders Slack Off just a teeny bit useless. May I suggest this set:

    Infernape@Focus Sash
    64 Atk, 252 SpA, 192 Spe
    -Fake Out
    -Swords Dance
    -Close Combat
    -Fire Blast
    A little variation on my own Infernape set, but it should still work just as well if not better. Fake Out helps you break enemy Sashes, while Focus Sash guarantees a Swords Dance. If Sash saves you, you're in Blaze, which combined with STAB(and possibly super-effective hits) makes Fire Blast deadly. With Blaze and STAB alone, you're looking at 270 base power, which will wreck shop. Close Combat, coming off of a doubled attack stat and STAB won't be a pretty sight for your opponent.

    I don't use Espeon much, so I can't really say anything here.

    For Jolteon, Wise Glasses or Choice Specs make a great item. If you're able to, switch to Crobat if something comes in carrying a Ground move. I'd opt for Thunderbolt over Thunder due to the better accuracy, and Signal Beam over Magnet Rise. I'd also pick HP Grass, so you can damage the Ground types that come in to murder you, and enemy Swamperts as well. Jolteon's pretty lacking in attacks, but stuff like Yawn could work, where you can force the enemy to either switch or stay in and activate sleep clause. Heal Bell can cure your party of any status ailments.

    Swampert's fine as is :p

    For Tyranitar, the moveset is perfectly fine. I'd switch the nature to Jolly, and the EVs to: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe. Tyranitar has enough bulk to pull of a Dragon Dance, and Sand Stream will boost his SpDef by 50% anyway. T-tar's just a beast to take down, just be careful against something that could possibly carry a Fighting move. Life Orb or Lum Berry are good alternatives for items, with Lum Berry removing a harmful stat-reducing status like Burn or Paralysis, while Life Orb makes Dragon Dance even more dangerous.
    #2 Shocari, Jan 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2013
  3. Sho already talked about the rest. Espeon can be used as a special wall, but other Pokemon are better suited for this, if you're willing to change it. Dusknoir and Registeel are good examples. Their Sp. Defense (and Defense) are really high, making them great walls. Dusknoir also has a high attack, while Registeel has an OK one. (Registeel has higher defensive stats though). I think a good Dusknoir build could be:

    Dusknoir @ Leftovers
    252 Attack/252 Sp. Def.

    - Shadow Punch/Shadow Sneak
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Mean Look
    - Fire Punch

    Mean Look and Will-O-Wisp will allow damage to be inflicted every turn and no chance of switching out, unless Dusknoir is KO'd (unlikely, unless super effective). Shadow Punch/Sneak are a matter of preference. Do you want it to hit no matter what or to hit first while sacrificing damage? Fire Punch is if you are walled with a Dark type or Steel type.

    That's just an example. If you want to stick with Espeon, I'm not sure for a wall because it's a Special sweeper with its high Sp. Attack and Speed.
  4. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    There's a few points I'd like to pick at here:

    First things first, you do not have to lead with Swampert. Yes, you want Stealth Rock out early, but you don't need it out straightaway, and with Machamp leads running around everywhere lately your Crobat's Brave Bird might come in handy should you be facing any of these four-armed roid-monsters. You CAN lead with Swampert (and he does quite well against Machamp) but you certainly do not need to.

    I'm not going to go into excessive detail here, but this moveset is poor at best and won't perform its role that well at all, especially given that, as a special wall, it itself gets murdered by the top special attacker in the game (Heatran.)

    Do me a favour next time Blisk - do your research, or say nothing at all.

    Now for the important stuff:

    - Crobat with Quick Claw is a joke - nothing except Ninjask, Electrode, Scarf users and priority users will beat Crobat in the lead slot, and such threats are hardly worth using Quick Claw for. Otherwise, the moveset is pretty good - Hypnosis is the best choice for a status move on Crobat despite the arse accuracy, but it is an Egg Move as well and you can't have both it and Brave Bird. Timid Nature, Air Slash and Hypnosis IS allowed however and works very well, so if you really want Hypnosis then that's the route to take with it. If you'd rather keep Brave Bird or just don't like Hypnosis, Toxic, Confuse Ray or U-Turn will work for the last slot. Note that Taunt + Hypnosis blocks Sleep Talk here, making Crobat notably more dangerous than the average Sleep inducer. Lum Berry, Focus Sash or Black Sludge would be my personal picks for items.

    - Your current Infernape set is poor overall - Slack Off is completely useless for one thing, and the set itself doesn't make the best use of Infernape's strengths at all. Infernape should instead focus on wall-breaking for another sweeper to take the game - Fire Blast and Close Combat knock down many defenders quite handily, and Grass Knot is common here too to get rid of the likes of Swampert and Suicune. Fake Out's fun to have and I'd keep it around, although Nasty Plot and U-Turn are notable options as well since Infernape struggles against stuff like Cresselia and Uxie otherwise. Hasty/Naive are by far the best choices for natures on Infernape to make the most of his high Speed, and Life Orb is usually the preferred item in order to push the monkey into Blaze for more powerful Fire Blasts.

    - Espeon should be the end-game sweeper here, him or Tyranitar. Not only is Espeon quicker than Infernape, but it also has a safer setup thanks to its high Sp.Defense combined with Calm Mind (and Infernape generally has better things to do with his time.) Espeon can't wall a thing thanks to his terrible HP, so having him as a wall is suicide. Hidden Power Fire/Fighting are good choices (although Scizor's Bullet Punch will likely kill you anyway) alongside STAB Psychic, and Grass Knot + HP Fire + Psychic works well enough for your three moveslots to go along with Calm Mind and whatever item you feel like using. Hell, if it worked for Azelf, then...anyway, if HP Fire is too hard to get, Shadow Ball or Signal Beam are the next best choices (Signal Beam is better for me.)

    - I don't know why people insist on sticking Magnet Rise on every single Electric-type they see, but this is just a note from me to everyone: MAGNET RISE ON FRAIL, ELECTRIC-TYPE SWEEPERS SUCKS ASS! Sure, it might let you avoid a Ground-type attack, but it won't save you from every physical, neutral STAB that can OHKO Jolteon and friends with ease, nor will it save you from half the special STABs that will do the same. Timid is by far the best nature for Jolteon (Speed is VERY crucial in this game) and for your set, I'd recommend this:

    Jolteon @ Petaya/Salac Berry
    Volt Absorb
    252 SP.Attack/252 Speed/6 HP

    - Thunderbolt/Charge Beam
    - HP Ice
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass

    This set is primarily to help Espeon sweep while also working as a hit-and-runner itself. Thunderbolt + HP Ice will work wonders for coverage (and Espeon's already packing Grass Knot as it is,) but if you want to focus more on supporting Espeon than doing damage, Charge Beam will let you pass stat boosts to Espeon along with Substitutes and whatever berry boost you choose. Between Substitute and Baton Pass, this Jolteon is quite hard to take down, since he can usually pop a Sub and Baton Pass away if the opponent tries to switch something in on him. Signal Beam over HP Ice if you can't get the latter (although in this case, HP Ice is rather mandatory.)

    - Swampert, is indeed, fine as it is.

    - You know, if you wanted a special wall, look no further than Tyranitar - with Sand Stream boosting his Sp.Defense by 50% on top of great HP, you don't even need Sp.Defense training on this guy for him to be able to wall things. Hell, only Blissey and Snorlax really outstrip Tyranitar as special walls and since Sand Stream IS your Sp.Defense training, you can dump the rest of those EVs into Attack to turn Tyranitar into a crushing monstrosity tank, or onto Defense to make the ultimate mixed wall (that still hits very hard I should add.) Stone Edge would be superior to Rock Slide for any Tyranitar foregoing Dragon Dance, although oddly Dragon Dance can work surprisingly well on even defensive Tyranitar. If you urgently need a special wall, Tyranitar's more than capable, although you might need to rework his moves (and definitely his EVs, although that applies to a lot of your Pokemon) to get the most out of him.

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