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DPPt/HGSS Fire Red Team

Discussion in 'The Doctor's Clinic' started by Pichazard, Aug 29, 2007.

  1. Well as the 4th gen fairy has not seen fit to bestow upon me a game (bitch), I'm stuck playing fire red and emerald. :-X :'(. Anyways i need team help. This will be for the elite four.

    I've got this so far

    1. Charizard
    a.flamethrower
    b.earthquake
    c.Sunny Day
    d.???

    2.Lapres
    a.Surf
    b.rain dance
    c.tbolt
    d. icebeam

    3.Alakazam
    a.psychic(sp?)
    b.calm mind
    c.recover
    d.shadow ball( i think it can learn it)

    4.Machamp
    a.cross chop
    b.focus energy
    c.substitution
    d.focus punch

    Soooo Yeah any help will be appreciated
     
  2. Any levels there?

    Anyway, I reccomend another Fire type move for Charizard (I'm not sure what it can learn until I know what lvl it is)

    Lapras - What is tbolt?

    Alakazam and Machamp seem to be ok.

    Have you got any others? Or are those your only 4?
     
  3. Charzard should know at least one Flying attack.
    Tbolt is Thunderbolt, Psylark.
    Maybe try Rock Slide for Machamp to get rid of its Flying weakness.
    And choose another 2 Pokemon to use. The Champion always has 6 Pokemon. You'll be at a Disadvantage if you don't.
     
  4. Yeah I know that Gary has six pokemon in the last battle. Thats one thing i need help with: deciding for the other two pokemon.

    Also why do I need a flying attack for charizard? Its only super effective against bug , grass and fighting which i have covered.

    I've also thought a little more about the team how about this:

    1. Charizard
    a.flamethrower
    b.sunny day
    c. fire blast
    d. wing attack

    2. Lapres
    a.surf
    b.tbolt
    c.rain dance
    d.ice beam

    3. Alakazam
    a.psychic
    b.calm mind
    c.recover
    d.shadow ball

    4. Machamp
    a.cross chop
    b.focus energy
    c.rock slide
    d.submission

    5.Nidoking
    a.double edge
    b.earthquake
    c.mega horn
    d.counter

    As for the fifth pokemon, I'm still stumped. Also all pokemon would be level 58-60 except for Charizard which would be 60-62
     
  5. It gains a STAB bonus. Aerial Ace is also a much mor reliable attack for Flying types, too.

    Your Nidoking should (Doesn't have to, but should) have a Poison type attack. Anytime you can get STAB, use it. Sludge Bomb is a good move.
     
  6. baratron

    baratron Moderator of Elder Scrolls
    Staff Member Moderator

    Friend Code:
    4983-5151-3791
    It's kinda a waste to have two Fire-type attacks on the same Pokemon. Pick the one you like best and stick to it. I'd favour a moveset such as:
    1. Flamethrower - FIRE (Due to its higher accuracy)
    2. Dragon Claw - DRAGON (Also uses the Sp.Atk stat)
    3. Aerial Ace - FLYING (Has "never miss" accuracy, so is better than Wing Attack)
    4. something else

    I don't like having Sunny Day and Rain Dance on the same team. If you have to suddenly switch Pokemon, you're going to end up with your Water attacks underpowered due to Sunny Day being in force, or with your Fire attacks underpowered due to Rain Dance in force. I'm inclined not to bother changing the weather in most cases.

    However, if you're desperate to have Rain Dance on Lapras, switch out Thunderbolt for Thunder. Thunder has higher power and becomes 100% accurate in a rainstorm.

    I'm also inclined to think that Shadow Ball is a bad idea on Alakazam because it uses the Attack stat in the 3rd gen, and Alakazam's Attack is appalling compared to its Sp.Atk. I used Alakazam as a Special Sweeper, with the three elemental punches:
    1. Psychic
    2. Fire Punch
    3. Ice Punch
    4. Thunderpunch

    but this would require you having enough of whatever the move tutor in Fire Red wants as payment, and would completely negate the point of your Lapras. So I'll have to think about that further. What ability does your Lapras have? Water Absorb or Shell Armor?

    Also, what abilities do your Machamp and Alakazam have? Machamp's moveset depends on whether it's Guts or No Guard - although I'm pretty sure No Guard is a 4th gen-only ability.

    I'm too tired to think about the movesets now (it's nearly 2am in my timezone) and my head is all full of Diamond/Pearl stuff, but I'll look at your post tomorrow and see what I can come up with.
     
  7. Well I'm not sure what the Lapres will have, but I'm going to aim for a shell armor. Also Guts is the only 3rd gen ability for the Machamp line, and my Alakazam has Inner Focus. Shadow Ball is a ghost type attack and either it runs off of special or my haunter's stats LIE. Speaking of which I think I've come up with a final team. PLease tell me what you think:

    Lapres
    a.surf
    b.ice beam
    c.thunder
    d.rain dance

    Alakazam
    a.psychic
    b.calm mind
    c.recover
    d.reflect (unless one of you can suggest somthing better)

    Machamp
    a.Cross Chop
    b.Focus Punch
    c.substitution
    d.rock slide

    Gengar
    a.night shade
    b.confuse ray
    c.shadow ball
    d.??? ( any ideas?)

    Nidoking
    a.Double Edge
    b.Megahorn
    c.earthquake
    d. sludge bomb( anybody know where to find the TM?)

    Charizard
    a.flamethrower
    b.sunny day
    c.aerial ace
    d.Dragon claw
     
  8. Ice Punch or Thunderbolt are useful on 'gar. I used a Gengar on Netbattle a lot and it seemed like Ice Punch was an unexpected move.
     
  9. baratron

    baratron Moderator of Elder Scrolls
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    Friend Code:
    4983-5151-3791
    Ghost attacks use the normal Attack stat in 3rd gen. Honestly!

    Attack: Normal, Fighting, Poison, Ground, Flying, Bug, Rock, Ghost, Steel.
    Sp. Atk: Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Ice, Psychic, Dragon, Dark.

    I still honestly think you need to use Alakazam as the Special Sweeper with the powerful special attacks. Look at the base stats of Lapras and Alakazam. Lapras has a base Sp.Atk stat of only 85, but Alakazam's Sp.Atk is 135! Also, at the moment you have Recover on Alakazam, but it has lousy defensive stats - base Def stat of 45!!. The likelihood of Alakazam surviving, say, a Ghost-type attack (Super Effective & using the normal Def stat) is so low that Recover is a waste of a move.

    Alakazam is best employed as a Pokemon with 4 powerful Special attacks that between them cover most weaknesses. You switch it in, knock out the opponent in one hit, then switch out. Lapras is much better off as a Tank-type Pokemon, absorbing lots of hits with its high defensive stats and HP. I'd go for the Alakazam moveset I already mentioned, then a Lapras moveset something like this:

    1. Confuse Ray
    2. Toxic
    3. Rest
    4. Some decent attack move, e.g. Body Slam

    The idea of this is that you confuse the opponent and inflict bad poison on it (Toxic-type poison gets worse every round), then sit there absorbing any attacks they use on you. If Lapras holds a Chesto berry, it'll wake up from sleep immediately rather than needing 2 turns for Rest. Alternatively, give it Leftovers so it can be healed a little each turn.

    [quote author:pichazard link=topic=2804.msg35655#msg35655 date=1188783480]
    Machamp
    a.Cross Chop
    b.Focus Punch
    c.substitution
    d.rock slide
    [/quote]
    Get rid of Cross Chop on Machamp. Why have two Fighting-type moves on the same Pokemon? Substitute + Focus Punch is a great combination that will knock out almost any opponent, so you don't need Cross Chop as well. Replace it with Facade, TM42. The idea of this is that Machamp's ability is Guts, which boosts its Attack stat when it's Burned, Poisoned, or Paralyzed... and the move Facade doubles in power when the user is Burned, Poisoned, or Paralyzed. This is really useful in a tight situation.

    [quote author:pichazard link=topic=2804.msg35655#msg35655 date=1188783480]
    Gengar
    a.night shade
    b.confuse ray
    c.shadow ball
    d.??? ( any ideas?)
    [/quote]
    Again, you don't need Night Shade and Shadow Ball. Get rid of Night Shade.

    I'm not really a fan of Gengar as I had one with fairly decent IVs that I trained - which could be one hit KOed by almost any level 50 Pokemon in Colosseum. That annoyed me a lot. The other problem is that while it mostly learns physical attacks, its Special Attack stat is far higher than its Attack stat. It's another of the Pokemon like Gyarados that really benefitted from the physical/special split in Diamond & Pearl.

    If you're desperate for a moveset, try:
    1. Shadow Ball - GHOST type move, with STAB
    2. Brick Break / Counter / Seismic Toss - FIGHTING type move, will be 2 x effective against Normal, Dark and Steel types. (Ghost-type moves can't hit Normal-types & are only 0.5 x effective against Dark & Steel Pokemon).
    3. Protect / Toxic / Rain Dance
    4. Destiny Bond / Giga Drain / Thunder

    I'd strongly recommend going with Protect & Giga Drain because you don't currently have a Grass-type attack on any of your team members, and they're really useful against both Water & Ground types. Gengar is super powerful against Ground types because it has Levitate ability. Also, Giga Drain heals you half the damage inflicted.

    [quote author:pichazard link=topic=2804.msg35655#msg35655 date=1188783480]
    Nidoking
    a.Double Edge
    b.Megahorn
    c.earthquake
    d. sludge bomb( anybody know where to find the TM?)
    [/quote]
    Yeah... TM36 is in the Team Rocket HQ on Island 5 - well after the Elite 4. Sorry that wasn't helpful :(. You'll have to trade it over from another copy of the game or something like that.

    I haven't thought about how this team will face up to the Elite 4 & Champion - do you want to know what types they use in advance?
    Edit: OK, I've thought about it, and this team isn't going to do well against the Elite 4. I can recommend a fair amount of switching/fixing, but it'll mean either that I tell you what the weaknesses are (which some people consider a spoiler), or completely switch a couple of the pkmn.
     
  10. Actually i know the types, I've beaten FR and R a couple times before. This is just a way to keep me from going crazy till i get to Christmas and DP. Now that I think about it I guess i'll start over cause every TM so far has either been sold or used and I have no other FRLG games. . But before i do that I need to have a team set and stuff. So here's what I got, you know same tweak and respond deal.



    1.Arodactly
    1.Hyper Beam
    2.Agility
    3.Double Edge
    4.Earthquake

    2.Machamp
    1.Substitute
    2.Focus Punch
    3.Focus Energy
    4.Facade(anybody know where it is in Kanto?)

    3.Lapras
    1.Ice Beam
    2.Surf
    3.Thunder
    4.Rain Dance

    4. Rhydon
    1.Rest
    2.Earthquake
    3.Rock SLide
    4.Toxic

    More later, right now i have to go to bed :-X
     
  11. baratron

    baratron Moderator of Elder Scrolls
    Staff Member Moderator

    Friend Code:
    4983-5151-3791
    Oh hell, that's on Island 5 too :-\. Sorry about that.

    Well, if you've beaten the game before, you know what to expect... I guess. You need Pokemon capable of defeating the following types:

    Lorelei - Ice & Water. The fact most of her pkmn are dual Water/Ice types means you can't rely on Fire moves, and while Grass moves are useful against Water types, you can't use a Grass-type pkmn as it'll get KOed by her Ice moves. Electric types are useful, as are Grass moves on non-Grass pkmn.

    Bruno - Rock & Fighting. Go with Water and Grass against Onix. A fast Alakazam with Psychic can destroy all of his Fighting-types in one hit.

    Agatha - Ghost & Poison. Again, the fast Alakazam with Psychic can destroy her entire team. Or you could use Dark moves against the Ghost-types. Don't rely on Ground moves to attack the Poison-types, as Gengar has Levitate ability & Golbat can fly.

    Lance - Dragon. Lance has three Dragon types (Ice, Ice, baby!), a Gyarados (Electric Boogaloo) and an Aerodactyl (Water or Electric attacks).

    Champion - Rival. Electric for Pidgeot. Water or Grass for Rhydon. Fire or Dark for Exeggutor. Water for Arcanine. Dark for Alakazam and Grass for Blastoise. (I presume the rival will have Blastoise if you started with Charmander.)

    Basically, your current team just isn't up to dealing out those attacks. You don't have a single Grass move on your team, and I'm not sure the Rain Dance + Thunder combination is a good idea because of the setup time. You need to bring Alakazam back so it can Psychic its way through Bruno & Agatha's teams. And I really don't think Lapras should be a Special sweeper! I know you want to use it, but it's best as a tank.
     
  12. Hence the Thunder/Rain Dance combo on lapres.Trust me, tbolt Murdered Lorelei, only had trouble with the lapres cause i forgot to buy some elixers and had run out of tbolt pp


    I put surf on Lapres for those Onixes. Also I didn't think that Alakazam needed anything other than psychic, mainly because all the special attacks in learns are weaker than psychic. Also works for Agatha but I think i need to slip a dark type attack some where in here.


    I was planing on keeping the alakazam, but maybe I should keep gengar insted as a special sweeper because of the more choices for attacks, as opposed to just psychic attacks. Then my charizard would have the same moveset.


    Also which would you put on the machamp: Focus Energy or Bulk Up. Both are avalible to it at the start of the Elite 4 and I could use the boost they provide, but i'm leaning twords Bulk up. Thoughts?
     
  13. baratron

    baratron Moderator of Elder Scrolls
    Staff Member Moderator

    Friend Code:
    4983-5151-3791
    It'll always be the case that other special attacks will be weaker than Psychic, because Psychic gets STAB on Alakazam. Even if the other attacks started out with the same power as Psychic, they'd end up weaker.

    I still think it's a better idea to have other attacks on Alakazam rather than Recover, but meh. It's your team.

    Dark-type attacks are useful against Agatha, but of the Pokemon you've mentioned (Charizard, Lapras, Alakazam, Machamp, Nidoking, Gengar, Aerodactyl, Rhydon), only Aerodactyl can learn anything other than Thief, with the "wonderful" power of 40 :-\. It can learn Bite with power 60 - but has crappy Sp.Atk, making it a wasted move. I suppose the TM Thief would be ok on Alakazam with its super high Special Attack stat, but even then...

    [quote author:pichazard link=topic=2804.msg35814#msg35814 date=1188906126]
    I was planing on keeping the alakazam, but maybe I should keep gengar insted as a special sweeper because of the more choices for attacks, as opposed to just psychic attacks. Then my charizard would have the same moveset.
    [/quote]
    Gah! How many times do I have to say it? The Alakazam Special Sweeper moveset, courtesy of the Move Tutors in Emerald:
    1. Psychic - PSYCHIC - power 90 + STAB = 135, acc 100%
    2. Fire Punch - FIRE - power 75, acc 100%
    3. Ice Punch - ICE - power 75, acc 100%
    4. Thunderpunch - ELECTRIC - power 75, acc 100%

    That moveset can almost destroy the entire Elite Four singlehandedly.

    [quote author:pichazard link=topic=2804.msg35814#msg35814 date=1188906126]
    Also which would you put on the machamp: Focus Energy or Bulk Up. Both are avalible to it at the start of the Elite 4 and I could use the boost they provide, but i'm leaning twords Bulk up. Thoughts?
    [/quote]
    I'd always go for Bulk Up, as it raises two visible stats; whereas Focus Energy raises one invisible stat. I don't like fiddling with the invisible stats like critical hit ratio & evasion because it's too hard to figure out what the change will do 8). You can get exactly the same boost to the critical hit ratio by using a Dire Hit item instead of the Focus Energy move, whereas boosting both Attack and Defence would require taking both an XAttack and XDefend.
     
  14. You realize he doesn't have access to Emerald Move Tutors in FR...
     
  15. baratron

    baratron Moderator of Elder Scrolls
    Staff Member Moderator

    Friend Code:
    4983-5151-3791
    Yep, I'm not a complete idiot ;). I was going with the first post that says:

    It's possible he doesn't have a friend or sibling with another Game Boy Advance to do the link cable thingy & transfer Pokemon between his games, but if so, he should have said so rather than just ignoring my advice. If you don't tell me why my advice won't work and continue to ask the same question, I'll just go on repeating the same answer :). I'm old, it's what we do :p.
     
  16. Even having Emerald, I dont think he can trade.

    Its one of those annoying things they did in FR/LG.

    The other is the whole 'onoes no Crobat evo for you'
     
  17. You can, provided after you beat the Elite Four and get both the Sapphire and Ruby for the machine on One Island.

    Anyways: Aerodactyl has no Rock or Flying moves, making its bonus power wasted. And you already have a rock and Flying types covered. You don't need Aerodactyl when you have Rhydon already.
     
  18. I was refering to before Elite 4, sorry I didn't make myself clear there.
     

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