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Choice team assistance

Discussion in 'The Doctor's Clinic' started by Ruko, Jul 28, 2010.

  1. Ruko

    Ruko Bearded Trout Warrior

    Friend Code:
    I'm trying to build up a fun team of nothing but choice-item pokemon.. I'm alright with making Choice Scarf pokemon, but I seem to be lacking decent ideas for good Choice Band and Specs users. I'll list what I have come up with so far and will appreciate any suggestions to my sets, natures and EVs, but the larger purpose of this thread is to gather ideas on entirely new pokemon to add to my pool of choices.

    Here's the puddle I have so far

    Smeargle @ Choice Scarf
    - Spore
    - Transform
    - Trick
    - Destiny Bond
    EVs: HP and Speed

    My lead of choice for nearly any team. Spore incapacitates most pokemon, usually resulting in both of us switching. Transform lets me turn a sweeper against my opponent [and guarantee a first strike if I'm still holding my scarf]. Trick lets me cripple various pokemon, and opens up my move options so I can spore, Transform or Destiny bond depending on what I think will switch in afterwards.

    Flygon @ Choice Scarf
    Almost any nature that lowers a defense is good, depends on exact set
    - Outrage / Dragon Claw / Dragon Pulse
    - Earthquake / Earth Power
    - Fire Blast
    - U-Turn / Draco Meteor / Thunderpunch
    EVs: 252 speed, 200 either Attack or Sp. Attack, then 56 into the other Attack stat [depending on set]

    Very good typing and ability make it easy to switch in, and the Dragon STAB lets me take advantage of most situations. Combine with a very wide movepool and Flygon makes an excellent filler. If I use Flygon, it will probably be the last member I add so that I can tailor its set to cover the others.
    If I overlooked any useful moves for a choice set, I'd appreciate them being pointed out here especially :)

    Ninjask @ Choice Band
    Adamant / Jolly [Adamant actually leaves me slightly behind electrode, while jolly puts me ahead of the average scarf holder at a loss of power]
    - U-Turn
    - X-Scissor
    - Night Slash
    - Aerial Ace
    EVs: Attack and Speed

    U-turn is the primary focus here, abusing its circumvention of the Choice Band while hitting faster than most other pokemon even with an Adamant nature. KO's most frail sweepers with ease, or at the least leaves a heavy dent in all who don't resist it. Other moves are for different scenarios, but won't get a lot of use for the most part.
    Ninjask's biggest fall back is being OHKO'd by any decent priority move as well as a major weakness to stealth rock.. combine the latter with the fact that I can't feasibly have Rapid Spin on a Choice-item team and I don't think he'll be as reliable for me as he usually is :X

    Scizor @ Choice Band
    - U-turn / Bug Bite
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit
    - Bullet Punch
    EVs: HP and Attack

    One of the top choices for many players. U-turn gives me the same fun as I get with Ninjask, except that Scizor will be much slower and likely not get out of the way before being hit with something. Bug Bite gives a much more powerful alternative, but I lose the functionality of an attack and switch in the same turn. Pursuit will let me play mind games with my opponent and Bullet Punch will ignore Scizor's rather poor speed. Super Power is just for basic coverage.

    Starmie @ Choice Specs
    - Surf / Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Trick / Hidden Power Fighting
    EVs: Speed and Special attack, or I may opt for HP and Special attack since Starmie's bulk is often underestimated and untrained

    Basic set to take advantage of an opponent's weaknesses or abuse Starmie's STAB water. I don't really have a lot to say here XD

    Heatran @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    Modest / Timid [Specs and Scarf respectively]
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power [for Specs] / Eruption or Explosion [for Scarf]
    EVs: HP / Sp. Attack [Specs] or Speed and Special attack [Scarf]

    Great power as well as excellent typing and defenses. Heatran with HP EVs is very hard to take down without a ground attack. Eruption with a Scarf, on the other hand, will provide unparalleled power and accuracy even if Heatran takes damage from Stealth Rock [once].

    Shaymin @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    - Seed Flare
    - Earth Power
    - Air Slash
    - Hidden Power / Rest / Sleep Talk
    EVs: HP, Special attack and Speed [Amounts differing based on the item and fourth attack]

    Seed Flare with STAB is a force to be reckoned with, especially given the special effect Seed Flare contains. A 40% chance of sharply dropping special defense means that the pokemon resistant to grass who just switched in may have had its resistance completely neutralized while I was left untouched. Natural Cure is a very nice plus to Shaymin as well, and with the right mind games, I can use Rest and then switch away to cure the sleep. Sleep Talk lets me absorb or switch Shaymin into a sleep-inducing attack more effectively than just relying on Natural Cure to get rid of it again. Earth Power helps cover predicted Fire Types [though I more often opt for seed flare even if I predict a firey switch] and Air Slash covers Grass types.
  2. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    A few minor pointers:

    - Trick is definitely going to be the, er, trick of the day with a team like this, and I'd definitely make the most of it. Having at least a handful of Trick users on your team will leave anyone reliant on stalling or defensive strategies very frustrated and likely very beaten afterwards - definitely worth making the most of.

    - Scizor's U-Turn is very handy for one reason: Scizor can force switches very easily. The vast majority of Grass-types will hate him, especially if they lack HP Fire, and anything vulnerable to being OHKO'd by Banded Bullet Punch will likely flee from the metal mantis, allowing you to clobber the switch-in with U-Turn (even resisted, it'll do OK damage) and allow you to bring in a counter against the now wounded foe. Woe betide anyone foolish enough to switch in something that doesn't resist Bug when you do this, as they will suffer extreme damage if their physical defense is anything but amazing. Band Scizor is a very deadly threat, and I'd recommend it greatly.

    - Heatran I've always felt does better without having his moveset locked down, so if I had to give the Specs set to anyone, it'd have to be Shaymin. That Seed Flare will come in very handy even if you are locked into it, whereas Heatran often finds himself in rather odd double-checkmate positions if he's just switched in on something with Flash Fire (other Heatran especially) and has a Choice item in the back. Shaymin gets my vote for the Specs set, although Heatran could certainly do a lot of damage with it himself.

    - Specs Starmie is startlingly powerful from my personal experience, especially with Modest nature. I wouldn't waste Starmie's Speed with HP training myself, although it's definitely bulky enough to play it that way if you prefer. One thing to note with Starmie is that most foes will expect a Speed-boosting Nature, and will likely end up switching out if they're using stuff like Hasty/Naive Infernape, unaware that they actually outspeed you since you're Modest and not Timid - worth keeping in mind.

    - Flygon with a Scarf works very nicely - I've used it myself to great effect. I found the overall power from the set wasn't really good enough to afford me a mixed EV spread, forcing me to go Attack/Speed even with a Lonely nature. U-Turn is pretty mandatory - the move kicks ass with Choice movesets and should not be underestimated.
  3. Ruko

    Ruko Bearded Trout Warrior

    Friend Code:
    Throwing Rhyperior into the pool, with some credits to Bal and Fuman :)
    Additionally throwing a Scarf Dragonite into the pool, because it's typing fits what I needed best in the last slot [slightly moreso than Flygon, unfortunately]

    Rhyperior @ Choice Band
    Adamant Nature
    Solid Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Megahorn
    - Rock Blast / Avalanche
    EVs: Depends on team, but more than likely HP and Attack

    140 power with an amazing combination of STAB. Rock Blast would help cover the team's weakness to substitute, especially if the choice-theme was found out - Avalanche would more reliably cover dragons who may be trying to set up Dragon Dance

    Dragonite @ Choice Scarf
    Hasty Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Waterfall / Thunderbolt
    - Superpower / Thunderbolt
    - Earthquake / Thunderbolt
    EVs: Speed and Attack without Thunderbolt, or Speed and 156/100 Attack/Sp. Attack with Thunderbolt

    Draco Meteor needs no EVs to be powerful, though I'd use it primarily as luring and denting a switching pokemon, or to finish off a different one. Waterfall provides decent coverage and a very nice Flinch chance for a scarf set. Superpower and Earthquake are just typical coverage, each with their downsides. I'm not sure where or if I'll fit Thunderbolt in, but it will help defend against Gyarados who otherwise walls all of the attacks pretty well [High Sp. defense offsets Draco Meteor]

    Trick is nice, but I'd rather not abuse it entirely too much.. I can't say exactly why :S
    I think I'd just prefer aiming for the all-out offensive on this one, with Smeargle as my only reprieve.

    All of the input is appreciated, and I'll definitely keep the note about Starmie in mind.

    This is the best combination I've come up with so far:
    Smeargle @ Scarf, as seen above
    Dragonite @ Scarf, as seen above
    Scizor @ Band, w/ U-turn as seen above
    Rhyperior @ Band, HP and Attack EVs
    Shaymin @ Specs, w/ Rest despite saying I'd do Hidden Power on specs
    Heatran @ Specs, w/ Eruption at first just to test Heatran's ability to force switches, but likely switching to hidden Power

    With the team like this, Shaymin and Heatran form a perfect Tag-team, covering each other's weaknesses flawlessly and both with a very nice bulk to them. Shaymin's ability to sharply lower the special defense of a switch-in, then allowing heatran to take over only adds to the synergy. Dragonite covers the lot of the 4x weaknesses fairly well [Grass, Water, Ground and Fire between the team] While both Heatran and Scizor can cover Dragonite's. Smeargle takes over when I know raw power isn't going to get my out of my current situation.

    All in all, this setup lacks a bit of special defense but seems rather solid. I also realize I would cry if I ever knew I would use a team containing these pokemon two years ago.
  4. KoL

    KoL Expert FPS Player
    Staff Member Moderator

    Your current combination seems very solid to me.

    If I had to drop anything from Dragonite for Thunderbolt, it'd have to be either Waterfall or Superpower. Superpower seems like it'd be aimed squarely at Blissey and possibly Snorlax more than anyone else, and both of them are already likely to flee from Scizor and Rhyperior and probably won't like being stuck in with Shaymin either if Seed Flare is able to drop their Sp.Defense. Waterfall is just a bit...well, its coverage certainly isn't bad, and the flinch chance is nice, but it still seems a little spare since two of the types covered by Water (Fire and Rock) are already covered by your Earthquake, although being Scarf-locked into Earthquake definitely isn't a fun proposition if you're caught out. I'd give the drop to Waterfall, if you choose to drop any move for Thunderbolt.

    I've already discussed Rhyperior in chat with you - I'd have to pick Rock Blast over Avalanche here myself, since STAB Rock alone would be more than enough to put off any dragons trying to set up on you (except Garchomp, but you aren't likely to see him anyway.) Sp.Defense training for Rhyperior can work instead of HP training, since it helps him take those special hits noticeably better instead of being floored in one by them - depends if special hits to Rhyperior worries you or not really.
  5. Ruko

    Ruko Bearded Trout Warrior

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    I'm torn on the training for Rhyperior because I don't have anyone to sponge special attacks for him should I need to switch. At the same time, limiting his physical defense [HP does more for this than Def training] means that he can't so easily switch into attacks for the team.

    Relicanth @ Choice Band
    Adamant/Impish Nature
    Rock Head
    - Head Smash
    - Earthquake
    - Waterfall
    - Double Edge / Sleep Talk
    EVs: HP + Attack

    Makes a pretty good alternative to Rhyperior, and Head Smash actually hits harder than Rhyperior does with Stone Edge. Unfortunately, Relicanth only gets three good physical moves, so the last move is sort of filler here.

    Having Relicanth means I'd swap Dragonite back for Flygon for the electric immunity.

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