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DPPt/HGSS 4th Gen Starmie needs a 4th move

Discussion in 'The Doctor's Clinic' started by baratron, Nov 25, 2007.

  1. baratron

    baratron Moderator of Elder Scrolls
    Staff Member Moderator

    Friend Code:
    4983-5151-3791
    So, I have a level 63 Starmie with Modest nature (+Sp.Atk -Attack) that I have seriously EV trained in the 3rd Gen. I believe it has 252 EVs for Sp.Atk and 100 for Speed, but I can't remember now what the spread was over Def, Sp.Def and HP. (I do remember I was scared by the typical Special Sweeper 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Speed & 6 HP setup, and gave it better defenses!). The stats are:
    HP 170, Attack 105, Defense 158, Sp. Atk 181, Sp. Def 136, Speed 166.

    Not amazingly fantastic, but I also don't remember its IVs. After catching quite literally an entire box of Staryu, I went with the first one that was both Modest nature and Natural Cure ability, as I figured that was more important than anything else.

    In the 3rd Gen it had the usual Starmie Special Sweeper moveset:
    Thunderbolt - ELECTRIC
    Ice Beam - ICE
    Psychic - PSYCHIC
    Surf - WATER

    Of course, I had to take Surf off it to migrate it to the DS. And of course, they've changed Surf between the 3rd & 4th Gen: now, in a Double Battle, it hits your ally Pokemon as well as the two foes. This means I will be avoiding Surf in the future, because I like Double Battles, and the change screws up a lot of my strategies. So now I have to figure out a new 4th move, as well as deciding if I want to switch out any of the existing moves.

    Possibilities:
    TM03 Water Pulse - WATER, special - power 60, acc 100 - 20% chance of confusing the opponent.
    TM15 Hyper Beam - NORMAL, special - power 150, acc 90 - No thanks, two turn moves FTL.
    TM55 Brine - WATER, special - power 65, acc 100 - Power doubles if foe's HP is less than half.
    TM86 Grass Knot - GRASS, special - power ??, acc 100 - Power increases if foe is heavy.
    TM91 Flash Cannon - STEEL, special - power 80, acc 100 - 10% chance of lowering opponent's Special Defense by 1 stage.

    I think the only serious possibilities are Water Pulse, Brine and Flash Cannon. I don't like moves where I have to remember an entire table of data to know how effective they'll be (sure, I can remember that Steelix and Snorlax are heavy - the other ~400, not so much!), so that cancels out Grass Knot.

    What do you reckon: Water Pulse, Brine or Flash Cannon? Or Water Pulse/Brine and switch one of the other moves for Flash Cannon? Please give reasons - I've basically made the decision in my head and I want to know whether other people agree with me ;).
     
  2. Sem

    Sem The Last of the Snowmen
    Former Administrator

    Well, I'm pretty sure you'd want a water move in there somewhere. So Water Pulse or Brine. Again, can't really tell you which one. Either works, just depends on how you feel.

    Now, The only other move I could see you switching out for Flash Cannon would be Thunderbolt. For what reason I don't know however. Really, having Flash Cannon would only give you an edge on Ice-types. The other strength is Rock, but Water already takes care of that. Meanwhile, Thunderbolt gets rid of other Water-types, and Flying-types... Hm.... Well, actually, most people expect Starmie to have Thunderbolt anyway, so I dunno how many Water-types would be sent against you. I can't decide on this one either. XD I'd just say go with whatever your team's lacking.
     
  3. I actually still use Surf on my Starmie. If you can, Hydro Pump works but I'd go with Water Pulse because of its side effect and its PP. Brine only has 10 PP and only works well if the opponent has less than half their health. Grass Knot actually is a half decent choice on Starmie. Grass Knot can be used over Psychic.

    If you drop T-Bolt for Flash Cannon, you'll be walled by Empoleon unless you also dropped Psychic for Grass Knot. T-Bolt is a strong choice. Steel Attacks only hit Rock and Ice for super effective hits. Water attacks deal with this quite well anyways.
     
  4. baratron

    baratron Moderator of Elder Scrolls
    Staff Member Moderator

    Friend Code:
    4983-5151-3791
    Sem asked me on IRC why I don't have Confuse Ray on Starmie, and I said that I'm not keen on moves that JUST inflict a status ailment. I'm also about 90% convinced that Pokemon have a hidden "wisdom" stat, as I find that some Pokemon confuse very easily (e.g. Machop line) and hurt themselves 2/3 of the time, while others are almost impossible to confuse and hurt themselves less than 1/4 of the time (e.g. Abra line). As Starmie has relatively low defenses, so the best option is to hit fast and hard. Confuse Ray seems like a waste of a turn seeing as it's not guaranteed to stop the foe attacking you.

    Now, Water Pulse induces confusion 20% of the time but also hits as well, so it seems like a good choice. But Brine has the possibility of double power. Hrm. I suppose what I may have to do is to bring over one of my spare Water Pulse TMs from 3rd Gen and try that out on Starmie. I never actually used Water Pulse then because Waterfall or Surf was better; but now Waterfall is physical, and Surf hits your ally.

    Sem also pointed out on IRC that it's worth keeping Ice Beam, because Starmie's got the speed and the power to effectively deal with Grass-types. So really the question is Thunderbolt or Flash Cannon, and I think I'll keep Thunderbolt.

    What I am ever so tempted to do is breed Starmie for a new Staryu, because I'm intrigued by the opportunities offered by Camouflage, which it learns at level 19. According to Psypoke, Camouflage makes Staryu change Type depending on surroundings:
    In tall grass, it changes to Grass type.
    On and under water, it changes to Water type.
    In caves and on rocks, it changes to Rock type.
    On sand, it changes to Ground type.
    Elsewhere, it changes to Normal type.

    This could make for an interesting Starmie with Swift, Water Pulse/Brine/Surf and Power Gem all getting STAB. I'd have to check what Psypoke means by "tall grass" (the normal grass where you find Pokemon? Or only the super-tall grass that you can't run or use the bike in?). And I don't have a Modest Ditto (apparently it has to be the female Pokemon or the Ditto who holds the Everstone to pass on a nature), and I really doubt I could be arsed with EV training another Starmie (Running round the Old Chateau killing nothing but Gastly? I think I'd lose the will to live!). But still an interesting proposition.
     

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